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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be surprised at how little STBX will have to pay

999 replies

Stardustnight · 20/02/2015 22:11

STBX is on a very good salary indeed and his living costs are low.

Despite this, according to the CSA calculator he will only have to pay £800 a month for 3 children, which compared to the amount of money he actually has, isn't a lot - £200 a week.

Am I being unreasonable to be feeling mildly disgruntled and short changed? Or am I grabby and entitled ?

OP posts:
Philoslothy · 21/02/2015 20:49

I don't think the NRP should expect to just be able to pick up a new single life, or start a new family with someone else while the RP struggles to afford necessities.
I totally agree.

kim147 · 21/02/2015 21:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dontwanttopanic · 21/02/2015 21:23

I kind of think it is common sense that he should have to give up as much of his disposable income as the OP has to give up? They clearly at some point made a joint decision (or possibly not even so joint, from what the OP has said but in any case, a decision was made) that they would divide the work that had to be done to keep the show on the road between them in such a way that the ex husband would do the paid part and the OP would do the childcare part. Those parts are of equal value. I very much doubt that OP was sitting around all day painting her nails and reading her book with a ten month old in the house. In the extremely unlikely event that she was doing so, she certainly won't be once the new baby arrives. My heart goes out to the OP having to do this alone. I can only imagine that the posters who are minimising the OP's current situation must have forgotten that frightening and exhausting time with a newborn, and how it felt. The new baby is not going to sleep through the night any sooner, or cry any less in the witching hour for those first 12 weeks or so, just because the OP's husband has buggered off into the sunset. It's absolutely right that she should receive at least the equivalent of a living wage for doing his share of the childcare as well as her own. If she were to behave as he has, and swan off, then he would either have to do this himself or pay a 24 hour nanny. Including tax and NI, that would cost in the region of £15/hour where we live. 15 x 24 hours x 30 days per month = £10,800 per month. That should obviously be divided by 2, because they are equally responsible for the care of their children. So that is £5,400 per month that he should be paying to her on top of the "disbursement" costs of food and clothing.

There is something really offensive this idea that the poor husband shouldn't be disturbed in his right to start a "new life". "New life"?? Where is the OP's right to a new life then? How's she going to be managing that one whilst simultaneously caring for three children, two of whom are effectively babies? And OP, there is nothing at all wrong with expecting that your co-parent should be giving his all for the welfare of his children. Nothing at all. You would assume, wouldn't you, that anyone decent would do it without thinking about it, but the prevalence of alternative views on here does start to make you wonder. Should the OP's husband have a right to somewhere to live so that he is not sleeping in a doorway? Of course. Should the OP's husband have an overriding right to a beautiful apartment with a river view balcony? No, absolutely not. He has a right to a life. He does not have a right to a "new" life. He has a right to the life he built, with all the responsibilities and good bits and bad bits that entails, just like all the rest of us. If he has to live in a room in a shared flat in order to provide the best life for his kids that he can, then damn right that that is what should happen if it is necessary. I'd be interested to hear the views of the posters who are defending the husband on this. Er, are they honestly saying that they wouldn't be willing to do that for their kids, then...? Surely that isn't even touching the sides of what the average parent would be willing to do for their kids?

Sorry - that's a bit long and ranty, so apologies, but I'm really, really angry on behalf of the OP. OP, I hope that you're getting through this as best you can, under very difficult circumstances. Please don't take to heart all the awful stuff on here.

demonchilde · 21/02/2015 21:23

So it would be fairer if someone who's ex earns less only gets 30% of their salary whilst the ex of a higher earner gets 50%.

Really?

And again- the increased administration fees for such a system- who would cover those?

limegoldfinewine · 21/02/2015 21:24

I feel like a lot of posts being criticized are just people trying to tell the OP the truth - that you can't rely on this guy to pay even when he is supposed to pay, that acceptance and moving on is better than letting it torture you, and that obsession with money is keeping you in a prison.

This isn't about mumsnet's inverse snobbery. Based on what you've said, I earn double what your ex earns - who cares? I (like most people I know) hate my job so much I am willing to take huge paycut to get out. Yet you've come out this awful terrible relationship not thinking "I had tons of money and it was still hell" but "lots of money is critical to my happiness". I don't know whether to suggest counselling or refer you to an investment banking recruiter.

My experience is this: my sister was married and got pregnant. Her husband decided he didn't want a kid because he wanted all attention on himself - lovely guy. He tried to force her to abort, then got physical when she refused to. She ran back home to live to us and raised the kid alone. He would have been forced to give her a lot of money but she compromised in order to get full custody and a quick divorce. We all disagreed. We were very angry (obv) and wanted him to pay through the courts. In the end, she was 100% right. He would not have gone away. He had no interest in her child but to spite her, he would have taken one. The courts suck. And CSA is no match for people willing to bankrupt themselves and destroy their own lives in order to take down someone else. The money was nothing to the peace of mind of getting that dickhead out of her life. She used the money she got as a base, retrained and is very financially stable and happy now.

I'll repeat my main point: CSA is no match for people willing to bankrupt themselves and destroy their own lives in order to take down someone else. You could be entitled to 3.5k and still get zero. As long as you rely on this guy, he will use it to control you. If you want justice, go to the police and report him for the things he has done to you. You will not find peace this way.

dontwanttopanic · 21/02/2015 21:25

Oh, apologies - I can see that I've effectively cross posted with some of the thoughts above. That's the problem with a late night rant - it takes a while to type...

kim147 · 21/02/2015 21:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Marynary · 21/02/2015 21:37

So it would be fairer if someone who's ex earns less only gets 30% of their salary whilst the ex of a higher earner gets 50%.

Really?

I think it should work the same as income tax. Therefore, the NRP should pay a certain % of income up to a certain amount and a higher percentage for earnings above that threshold.

dontwanttopanic · 21/02/2015 21:41

Kim, to be fair that's a perfectly reasonable point, but I think there isn't ever going to be a one size fits all answer to that. It really will be a matter of fact and degree, surely, whereas the OP was asking about her situation specifically? In the OP's situation, then the answer is pretty clear cut. In other situations, I guess it would depend on what the children were having to go without in order that the NRP had extra room to have them stay, and what the relative benefits were of, for example:

  1. being able to buy school uniforms and new shoes; as opposed to
  1. the NRP staying on the sofa and the kids sharing the usual bedroom of the NRP when they are staying, etc.

I appreciate that that is perhaps taking things to the extreme, and I'm genuinely not meaning to be flippant about it. It's a serious issue to be considered, I totally get that. But I also think that this kind of logistical difficulty will often have a solution which far outweighs the difficulties to the RP of not having enough money to look after the kids. Obviously there are lots of perfectly normal, loving NRPs out there. From what I read on here, though, it seems that the argument might sometimes be abused to the detriment of the children involved. Ultimately, though, in many cases I think that this might be a bit of an academic argument; you would hope, wouldn't you, that a NRP who genuinely does want to see their kids is likely to be the kind of parent who wants the best for their kids under all circumstances so will reach whatever compromise is necessary in the best interests of the children.

VixxFace · 21/02/2015 21:44

The threads moved on since my comment but... half because op has three of his children 24/7.

kim147 · 21/02/2015 21:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CuntCourtIsInSession · 21/02/2015 21:47

It can work. I don't know whether it would suit everyone but my partner pays more than OP's ex for his one child, with what sounds like a similar salary. We live several hundred miles away from each other and see each other every second weekend, so that he can have a proper relationship with his child (his ex moved away, so he has moved 'halfway). I will perhaps never have a child of my own, because of this.

We do it because that's what happens when a person has a child and unfortunately I ran out of luck and time. In any situation the NRP makes some sacrifices; the RP makes other ones; their respective future partners make other ones again.

I reserve my absolute contempt for parents who don't recognise that. But I don't pretend that it's easy, or that there's one answer for every situation.

ImBatDog · 21/02/2015 21:59

so does all this count in the incidence the male NRP left their wife because she was being abusive, or because she was having an affair?

should he have no life, and be left destitute to keep her in the manner they lived as a couple when he's suffered years of abuse and leaving was the only way to get free, but he couldn't take the kids unless he gave up his job which would fuck the whole family over even more?

you can't make sweeping generalisations based on the idea the RP/mom is always the wronged party, they're not.

Stardustnight · 21/02/2015 22:01

Dontwanttopanic that's such a lovely and compassionate post. Thanks. Flowers

Lime that post is not fair. I am not letting it destroy me, I'm doing the opposite and moving forwards. I have not come out thinking "lots of money is critical to my happiness at all" but I'm afraid the amount I will be living on monthly is not a lot of money.

Some lovely supportive posts. Thanks.

OP posts:
Treaclepot · 21/02/2015 22:01

Good luck OP and ignore the twats!

ImBatDog · 21/02/2015 22:07

OP, i apologise for some of my posts yesterday, they were overly harsh, and i'm sorry that they contributed to the upset.

Can i just ask if you are going to call the tax credits helpline? i really think you should, because if what you say is right, and your only income is the £600 rental, you should be able to claim them!

DH was made redundant dec 13, and was out of work for 12mo, i was only working part time so our income dropped to almost nothing, and we were living off his redundancy and some inheritance of mine.. we get nearly £500 in ctc every four weeks at the moment because of that.

Stardustnight · 21/02/2015 22:09

That's very gracious of you Bat - thank you.

Have done so or tried to do so. No definitive answers as yet - have now been told 3 different things Hmm

OP posts:
Philoslothy · 21/02/2015 22:35

My husband was the "wronged" party in his first marriage, ( a phrase we would never use), that had nothing to do with him wanting to give his son the best quality of life that he could.

Stardustnight · 21/02/2015 22:39

I believe he does, in his own way, love his children, but sadly he has a twisted idea of love.

He will, I suspect, give the bare minimum in the hope that I will beg him to return or that he can lure the children to him with extravagant gestures.

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 21/02/2015 22:51

If he were capable of feeling genuine love for his children he'd care about their well being and wouldn't be focusing on punishing their mother. He wouldn't have been physically, mentally and financially abusive during the marriage. He wouldn't have been such an appalling role model for his son.

But you know that now, and won't be begging him to come back.

Stardustnight · 21/02/2015 22:56

I certainly won't be begging for him to come back!

However - I will defend him (I know.). He can feel love, but it's 'wrong', it's twisted. In his mind, it was ok to make life difficult for me going to work as it made me dependent on him and all along he was terrified of losing me. The bitter irony is I'd have walked on hot coals for him and if he'd treated me with just a hint of respect I wouldn't ever have left.

I've probably expressed that poorly. But he won't have unsupervised access to the children for many, many years.

OP posts:
oldnewmummy · 21/02/2015 23:04

Nothing to say that's not been said more eloquently by others.

You sound like a strong, intelligent woman, and I wish you all the best for your future.

YANBU, and I believe you.

Stardustnight · 21/02/2015 23:07

Thank you. :) I'll take strong but not so sure about the intelligent part! Grin

OP posts:
demonchilde · 21/02/2015 23:13

Really good post limegold.

Stardustnight · 21/02/2015 23:13

A really good post with little accuracy Hmm

OP posts: