To think that Islamic state will cause world war 3

[ReallyTired]

I feel terrified for the future. I believe that the world will reach a point where there will be outright war to stop Islamic state. In the meantime Russia will annexe the Ukraine and much of Eastern Europe.

I am scared that Islamic state will get hold of atomic weapons. There are Muslim extremists with the intelligence to make a nuclear bomb. There are Muslim countries with uranium deposits.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mining#/media/File:Uranium_production_world.PNG

i've been coming back to this and how to put it.

the reality is, like it or not, that the 'normal' or the vast majority of people in every country all over the world are just like you and with the same concerns as you and the same level of bewilderment at the crazies of the world (be they the crazy minority power groups or the crazy minority extremist outsider groups) and the same wish to live in a sane stable world that allowed us to just fairly and safely go about the business of living, keeping rooves over our heads, having hope for our children's future, the future of our ecosystems etc. the average middle eastern person is as weirded out and as you are, the average chinese person, russian person, etc.

we're all shaking our heads and going wtf?!

talking about there or over there or this nation or that nation or this religion or that race is a nonsense really because the vast, vast, international, multi ethnic, multi religious, athesit, theist, black, white, male, female MASS of us are on the same page.

allowing ourselves to be manipulated and scaremongered into seeing each other as the enemy is cattle-minded for want of a better term. we're better and smarter than that surely? what did a mother in iraq who is sat at her kitchen table meal planning for the week and tutting at the state her son has made of his latest pair of school shoes and noting the extra stone sitting around her middle ever do to you? does she not have a zillion times MORE in common with you than political or financial or religious extremist in a pole position ever could?

take yourself syria and imagine hiding in a basement with your kids going wtf is going on and how the hell do we get through this? that's where your average mother will be right now - just like you'd be whilst mad men of various sides turn the streets to shit and western 'companies' and governments still profit from selling arms and weapons to the various groups involved.

much as we carry on trying to pay the bills, balance the budget, etc in the face of a recession in which energy companies and bankers etc still make billions in profit and ruling classes take the opportunity to seize more property, more land, more civil rights etc.

to me this isn't even about left or right or political parties or movements or whatever. this is about not being distracted and this is about humanity. who do you relate to? do you relate to another mother powerless to influence the political, economic, ideological forces of manipulation and machination around her but just trying to raise her children and get by or do you relate to the propaganda machine of the force on your home ground?

i would sincerely beg you, ESPECIALLY if you have never widely traveled, been to these countries, met these people, swam in these cultures etc to at least question the reliability of the impressions you have that have been fed to you rather than tasted first hand.

likewise if you haven't had cause to actually be in contact with british muslim communities, to go to mosques, to hang out in muslim family homes etc etc to at least be aware that your opinions are based on what? and what are the motivations and sources of the 'what' that you have absorbed your opinions from?

just please try and separate fears (and again pick them apart and ask who has vested interests in me being afraid, from where do i get my fear, what feeds my fear, what/who does my fear serve) from rational and experiential knowledge.

likewise the same manipulations and twistings are being used by muslim extremists to twist and disorient people. and one side feeds the other - the more you guys go, 'all these muslims are x y and z and we should do a b and c to curtail them' the more those manipulating young minds on the other end of the extremist pole can use that as evidence and fuel for their cause to say look? see? see the hate and threat and racism and what we must fight against if we are to survive?

it is a fire essentially that extremists on either end feed. the vast majority of us in the middle would rather starve it of fuel. not through being apathetic. grr way too long sorry.

"cattle-minded"

was that rude of me?

An interesting phrase!

great post Honey

thank you and sorry for 'preaching' but i really think whatever your religion or race or whatever now that is the message or spiritual/political/however you see it lesson the human race has got to get in order to move forward and beyond all this madness. there is too much at stake to keep doing the cattle-minded empty vessel crap.

May I ask where You get the expression cattle minded from? Is it common phraseology for you? It's just not a phraSE that I'd come across until the last fortnight!

as far as i'm aware it came out of my head.

you know when you can see an aspect of mentality or culture or a phenomena developing around you and you think god that's so.... so..... and you have to come up with a name for it because it's not something you've heard discussed or it doesn't quite fit any of the near terms you find rattling around in there? that's how i got to cattle-minded. not sure if i have heard or seen it used elsewhere.

i think it might have been partly fed by that imagery of new years eve in japan (think it was japan) of human beings stampeding and a whole chain of thought it sent me off on about crowd mentality and how modern life conditions are affecting us now and into the future. that was shocking stuff.

There's an oft quoted, and unchallenged statement that of the 90 or so nobles that William the Bastard rewarded for their loyalty, with about 40% of England and Wales, their descendants still own about 50% of that - i.e. 20% of the country.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/17/high-house-prices-inequality-normans

It's impossible to comprehend the line in the sand October 1066 meant for England. Literally overnight, the entire ruling order was replaced. To the best of my knowledge, there's never been anything like in the world since. And I'm racking my brains to think of any examples before.

I'd plump for sheep like as that's the analogy I've been brought up with!

I have been following this thread since its inception, but had not signed up for an account until a few days ago. I had been wanting to post, but again real life and its complexities and demands got in the way, so I am very sorry if this is about three weeks late.

Some of my comments will be very general, whilst other parts will be a direct response to previously posted information.

Peacefuleasyfeeling: You stated that Wilts should check her sources. Now, I am not a fan of Brigitte Gabriel and Ingrid Carlquist, but I find it quite narrow-minded to dismiss something a person has to say simply because I do not agree with their general views. Even if I severely dislike a person's beliefs and convictions, I will not simply state that everything out of that person's mouth is wrong, because he she is left/right/religious/atheist/male/female or whatever. Allow me to illustrate with an historic example: Marie Curie, physicist and Nobel Prize winner, was belittled by many male academics during her life time simply because she was a woman. And after all, what does a woman know, right? Well, turns out she knew a lot more than they did, but back to the topic:

Unfortunately, much of what Gabriel and Carlquist say is supported by genuine research. For reference, please have a look at these finding from the Pew Research Center and its various global surveys. These reports tend to be very comprehensive and representative because of the sample size.

It should come as no surprise that an overwhelming majority of Muslims favours Sharia law as the official law of the land, but it is interesting to note that support for Sharia application in family law cases is almost universally high, it varies significantly when the more sordid aspects of Sharia come into play (such as chopping off the hands of thieves, stoning adulterers or killing apostates). Nonetheless, there is still too much support amongst the general Muslim populace for such practices. I don't think, and the UN and all human rights organisations agree with me, that amputations, stonings, etc. should ever be legal and proper punishment. I still find it rather frightening that 19% of Muslims across all age groups and of both sexes state that violence is either completely, sometimes or rarely (which means it's still justifiable under certain conditions) justifiable against civilians to defend Islam.
www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

These numbers are from 2007:
26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf

The promise of sometimes violent and dangerous action particularly appeals to young men, as ISIS's target audience for recruitment and the flood of mostly male new recruits after each publicised atrocity demonstrate. To those that say ISIS does not represent the "real" Islam, whatever may be, I respond that there is no real Islam as Islam lacks a universally accepted authority who determines the correct interpretation. This is part of the problem as it opens the Quran, the Sunna and the Hadith up to a myriad of interpretations that are in a theological and legal sense equally valid.

Granted, the majority of ISIS victims are fellow Muslims and it is feared and hated by many, but this does not change the fact that the foundational ideas that ISIS draws on and draws strength from, enjoy broad support amongst Muslim-majority populations. In other words, ISIS's definition and implementation of the caliphate may not be what they envision, but the notion of a caliphate and Muslim dominance is very powerful and widely embraced -- even amongst secular Muslims. Political scientist Shadi Hamid calls the "well-intentioned discourse of 'they bleed just like us; they want to eat sandwiches and raise their children just like we do'" a red herring. Pointing out that one can like sandwiches and desire peace, etc. whilst also supporting the death penalty for apostasy (88% of Egyptian Muslims and 83% of Jordanian Muslims according to a 2011 Pew poll).

What I am trying to say, is let's not demonise, but let's not underestimate that most current interpretations of Islam do involve the desire for a global or at least very large and powerful caliphate which is predated and facilitated by a massive decline of Western political power and secular values.

P.S. Shadi Hamid's article can in The Atlantic is called "The Roots of the Islamic State's Appeal" (available free of charge) and makes a clear case that ISIS's rise is related to Islam.

yours is an interesting post and I wanted to let you know I read it

it's an important discussion