To think that Islamic state will cause world war 3

[ReallyTired]

I feel terrified for the future. I believe that the world will reach a point where there will be outright war to stop Islamic state. In the meantime Russia will annexe the Ukraine and much of Eastern Europe.

I am scared that Islamic state will get hold of atomic weapons. There are Muslim extremists with the intelligence to make a nuclear bomb. There are Muslim countries with uranium deposits.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mining#/media/File:Uranium_production_world.PNG

Sheba, that's kind of what I mean about left wing racism. These countries are always poor and subjugated by the west, blah, blah. It's never their own fault, they have no power for self determination or capacity for self improvement but are merely ciphers blown hither and thither at the will of white Western people.

They do have capacity but its been severely undermined by colonialism and latterly multi-nationals hogging natural resources. Its barely 70 yrs since the Radcliffe line and partition in India, totally artificial states were created and naturally chaos has ensued. Yemen, as it stands today was created in 1990. How can you expect young nations to have developed competent and just systems of government when most of their natural resources were stolen from them?
The violence and corruption stems from being dropped into an artificial free for all situation after colonial powers withdraw, its not happening in a vacuum. it will take time and money to solve these problems and allow a ruling class to emerge, the West washing its hands and walking away blaming these problems on some sort of inherent savagery on the locals is shameful.

Spot on, thechandler.

It's not so much the terrorist attacks by individuals in Paris, Sydney etc. that are the biggest concern. Nor even the hostage-taking and barbaric executions. We've had that, on a lesser scale, with the IRA bombings in N.I. and the mainland.

It's the fact that the IS army very nearly took Bagdhad. And they're still fighting the Kurds. They're not just a group of psychopathic thugs. They are extremely organised, have lots of money, and are capable of fighting a conventional war. They could easily get hold of nuclear weapons in the future. An awful lot 'disappeared' after the breakup of the USSR.

Who is going to stop them? The West has the capacity, but 'it's all about oil' whenever they respond to pleas for help.

How can you expect young nations to have developed competent and just systems of government when most of their natural resources were stolen from them?

It's also worth bearing in mind that vast swathes of the world have no interest in developing systems of government that we in England would see as 'competent and just'. Saudi Arabia has done a pretty good job of exploiting its own natural resources; this doesn't seem to have prompted a flowering of democracy there.

Sheba why isn't the Christian African populace committing post-colonial wide scale terrorism ?

Arguably the African sub-continent is much poorer than the Middle East.

Truthfully I think there's little that can be done to stop them. IMO the best approach would be, as it was with Soviet Russia, to contain them, offer them no economic succour, and clamp down hard on the spread of their supporting ideology in this country.

How can you contain them without force? Or do you just let Iraq become the first IS caliphate? Without air support from the West, they would have taken Baghdad. Then there's Syria...

And it's like a policy of containing Hitler after he invaded Poland. How would that have worked out?

Re Soviet Russia. We did draw a line over Berlin. And Cuba. Now that's really what it felt like to be on the verge of WW3.

As far as I can make out, in the eyes of IS Iraq already is the first caliphate in 1000 years.

On performance so far, boots on the ground in that region just makes things worse. I don't see a problem with using force to support the territories not yet invaded by IS.

I don't see what else can be done, though, other than to encircle them with hostile states, cut off all trade and wait for their administration and infrastructure implode. In the meantime, at least all the Islamists currently causing trouble in non-Islamic countries could be kicked out to go and live there.

Hezbollah has just issued a statement encouraging the Middle East to unite again Isis. Egypt and Jordan have been carrying out air strikes. So I'm not quite sure how this translates to no Muslims criticising Isis.
Nor in my view should they have to. Why should ordinary people be held liable for the actions of extremist nutters?

Meanwhile in the US it was only thanks to social media that the hate crime murder of three Muslims even made the news, although there have been attempts to write it off as a parking dispute. You can guarantee that had it been a Muslim who had killed three people it would have been world headlines and called a terrorist attack.
Muslims are "othered" in our media, subjected to drone strikes in Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan. Meanwhile we cosy up to Saudi which is the country which has funded and exported this extremist brand of Islam in the first place.
It's rank hypocrisy. I feel very sorry for my Muslim friends, colleagues and neighbours right now. It's becoming a toxic atmosphere for them.

honey oh I give up

Again very patronising as though only you understand these issues and the rest of us are ignorant racist twats.

My concern in all this mayhem is the role and treatment of women.

All religions generally hate women.

Christianity has almost been dragged kicking and screaming into equality at least on the surface.

The Muslim religion hasn't even got off the ground.

I too would ban all faith school and teach religions as a subject.

IS's supporting ideology is the Quran and Sunnah (actions and deeds of Muhammed). Everything they do is justified theologically through verified Islamic texts. Their leader has a PhD in Islamic studies.

Some of their interpretations are open to debate but, they do put forth Islamic arguments for all their actions. So unless we're going to ban the Quran, its not going to be possible to ban the supporting ideology.

The problem is also not just IS, but also the soft Islamists here who are responsible for the rise in conservatism and radicalisation in the muslim population in the West. Its the mainstream muslims who give succour to the literalists by giving Islam ill-deserved respectability.

MistressMia the difficulty is that the Sunnah and the Koran are seen as unalterable, so we are left with religious clerics interpreting texts which were laid down hundreds of years ago, which obviously permits some very varying interpretations. Possibly as a result, Sharia law also allows for reasoning by analogy and consensus of public interest to be used to legitimise actions, if the Koran and the Sunnah do not cover it. This varies hugely from country to country.

Christian Africa only exists because missionaries were encouraged to ply their trade to the natives in Africa as it coincided with the goals of colonisers. Just as fundamentalist Muslims now try to proselytise Sharia Christians in Africa were spreading the word of God in English, very helpful for trading those commodities.
India was an empire in itself before the British came, Africa was a collection of different territories and nations with no homogenous culture, its an interesting point you raise though, christianity never took hold in India to the same degree.

My concern in all this mayhem is the role and treatment of women

Yes and this is the problem even if we could "leave them to it" we cant because they have enslaved so many poor women and children and peoples from the lands they have occupied, people who are now prisoners. As well as all the men made prisoners.

I dont think leaving them to it is a viable policy any more, boko harem, IS etc need to be stopped. But going in and bombing indiscriminately is not the answer, it creates more support for them.
Imagine if you lived in Iraq under Saddam, you see the West invade and welcome them with open arms, suddenly your house is bombed and your children are killed if they're lucky, if not they are left to die a lingering death because of their wounds as there is medical care, you live in what is now a no go area beacuse of insurgents fighting US troops. These westerners did nothing except cause you more pain and hardship and now they've left the place in a mess and buggered off.
You just want to get on and feed whats left of your family. Next thing IS are in town, stealing your son and beating you into a burqa you've never worn before.
That is what people are facing there, every day is a struggle to survive. I wouldnt be a hero if I saw the neighbours burned alive for not converting/complying, saw my cousin being thrown off a building because somebody said he was gay. Most of those people are just like us, subject to the whims of whoever is in power. We canvote and protest if we arent happy, they cant unless they're ready to die in whatever horrible way IS can think of.

Hezbollah who are Shia are not regarded as muslims by IS or in fact by many of the Sunni majority. Therefore its not surprising that Hezbollah want them gone seeing as the wholesale elimination and slaughter of Shias is imminently on the cards.

For years though Hezbollah have promulgated anti-Jewish rhetoric and not cared at all that this has led to a rise in attacks on Jewish people throughout the world, all completely unconnected from the Israeli states actions.

hate crime murder of three Muslims Where is your evidence for this being a hate crime ?

And contrary to your opinion that this garnered no publicity, in actual fact it was covered prolifically even if (which wasn't the case) the furore started on social media. This was in direct contrast to the hundreds of other shootings that occur in similar circumstances every day in the US, which never get a mention.

BTW I didn't see much either about the 20 Shias killed in the latest mosque bomb blast by Sunni muslims a few days ago in Pakistan. Or the blast a few weeks prior to that which killed 60. Even more deafening was the silence from mainstream muslims worldwide protesting and highlighting these 80 odd deaths. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-31451201

Indeed knitted and sheba

And yes Sheba who the hell would stand up to Isis and then see their children buried alive.

Their atrocities are on a par with the nazis and sadam. Unspeakable.

Hicks was vehemently ant-religion and killed three people who were obviously observant. Had the situation been reversed it would definately have been described as a terrorist attack.
I agree that a lot of violence and terrorism is under-reported. This is a failing of the Western media who only tend to get excited at the deaths of other Westerners.
I'm also not convinced we can put the blame on Hezbollah on a rise in anti-Semitism given the actions of Israel and their insistence that they are a global Jewish mouthpiece.

See, I just don't believe that military force is going to be very effective at making Boko Haram or IS be nicer to women. While I agree with the sentiment that enslaving schoolgirls as concubines is about as abhorrent as it gets, I don't think going to war with them on those grounds is going to result in a net improvement in the lives of women in those areas and will make a whole slew of other things worse.

I'm very sorry for the women who are stuck there but I think the only way forward is to stop IS expanding its borders and bleed it dry until it implodes.

According to his neighbours Hicks was an unhinged loon who hated all religionists. His Facebook page was most scathing about Christianity.

Neighbours knew Craig Stephen Hicks. He was the angry man on Summerwalk Circle, they said — irritated about noise, irascible about parking, hostile to religion. And armed.

“I have seen and heard him be very unfriendly to a lot of people in this community,” said Samantha Maness, a resident of the complex. She said that Mr. Hicks had displayed “equal opportunity anger” and that “he kind of made everyone feel uncomfortable and unsafe.”

Ms. Maness said Mr. Hicks would often seek to have cars towed from the complex’s lot, either because they did not have stickers or because he did not recognize them. And she said he would complain about noise — he was upset when she and her friends were playing a card game and he thought they were too noisy, and he was again upset when she pulled into the lot with music playing loudly in her car.

www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/us/chapel-hill-neighbors-say-they-felt-threatened-by-man-held-in-killings.html?_r=0

You really need to stop making things up to fit your agenda.

I'm not "making things up". I'm putting forward my views, just as you are doing. I don't have an agenda, I have an opinion.
You're also somewhat missing the point, which is that, had the killer been Muslim and his victims not, it would have in my opinion been described as terrorism.

Slaggy

The police are of the opinion that the murders were because of a parking dispute. I am fascinated that you know better. Perhaps the grand jury need to hear from you.

It is quite possible for Muslim people to be murdered for reasons other than their religion or race. To automatically assume otherwise is rather ignorant.

And I find it quite repellent that you would use the deaths of three innocent people to try and score points in this manner.

And you apparently don't know what "terrorism" means.

ShebaRabbit

Christian Africa only exists because missionaries were encouraged to ply their trade to the natives in Africa as it coincided with the goals of colonisers. Just as fundamentalist Muslims now try to proselytise Sharia Christians in Africa were spreading the word of God in English, very helpful for trading those commodities.

India was an empire in itself before the British came, Africa was a collection of different territories and nations with no homogenous culture, its an interesting point you raise though, christianity never took hold in India to the same degree.

Yes, I was going to raise this earlier. Although I don't like what is happening around us (i.e. the rise of radical Islam around the world and here amongst us in the UK also), part of me does concede that we're only having done to us what we did to others 200 years ago.

That said, I think mass conversion to Christianity also came with the telegraph, the railway, a civil service, civil control of military power, liberal education and far more besides. I've yet to discern any equally improving features amongst our more recent imports and converts.