To ask a friend to stop speaking her own language?

[jujujbel]

I have a very dear friend who is from another country but has lived in the UK for 20 years. Her DC are bilingual. Often, when we are together, she will break off the conversation to speak to her DC in her own language. This makes me uncomfortable and I find it rude but I have never mentioned it. However, a few days ago my DD came home from spending the day with my friends DD (they spend a lot of time together). She talked about how she hated it when they talked in a different language in front of her as it made her feel excluded. I explained that i had felt the same way and that it was actually considered bad manners to do this. I told my DD that if she felt uncomfortable she should say to her friend in as nice a way as possible and that I would do similar with the mum. The very next day, my DD did do this when the situation arose again and explained how it made her feel. She came home quite upset as she had argued with her friend about it.

We were all meeting up later anyway. When we got together my friend immediately said to me 'have you hear detox?' She then went to say, I'll speak to your dd to explain that I'm not talking about her it's just how we speak. I then said that I agreed with my DD and it made us both uncomfortable. My friend was shocked that I found her rude. I explained that it was only in the context where we are all having a conversation in English and they then break away to speak in a different language. Although I know they are not saying anything bad about us it is a horrible feeling and I don't understand why they feel the new to do it. I compared it to whispering. I have been very clear that it is only in the context of a group conversation being started in a shared language and then being continued in a language that not all of the group can understand.

My friend has now told me she will not speak her own language in front of my DD but that she will distance herself from us. She feels I am the inconsiderate one and that I am discriminating against her.

I am so hurt and confused. I guess I am just looking for a bit of MN perspective.

Sorry for the essay.

Thank

OP YABU. I have English speaking friends who break off conversations to speak in English to their children. I am not a part of these conversations and don't expect to be. Before I had children of my own I did find it a bit irritating tbh but I never said anything as I understood the irritation I felt was my issue, and not their responsibility. I don't see what difference it would make if my friend were speaking in Swahili to their kids.
I have a friend who speaks Catalan to her children in front of me and it has never occurred to me to be bothered by it. As I said above, even if they were speaking English it still wouldn't be a conversation I was part of.
I think you probably came across to your friend as attempting to control how she speaks to her kids. I am sorry but I completely understand why she is angry with you. If you want to preserve the friendship you need to give a massive unreserved apology which shows how you understand that you have been unfair and unreasonable. Just because you feel uncomfortable with how she speaks to her kids it doesn't mean that she, and not you, is responsible for your feelings.

OP there is near unanimity from people in your friend's position, bringing up bilingual kids, that YABU. What does that tell you?

Just want to make it clear I am an native English speaker too!

I've just realised this is happening to us tomorrow. We're going to a birthday party and the birthday girl speaks Thai to her nanny, Cantonese to her parents and English to DD. I must tell DD to be offended. There will be cake and crafts so I'm not sure she will be able to muster annoyance.

Sunny it is a comment on her logic and argument not her mental health. Not one moment did I think about her mental health. Not everything pertaining to the brain and people's unusual take on things needs to have a mental health label.

oh for gods sake newrule you said to her "You may need to see your doctor because something (perhaps undiagnosed) is wrong with your brain. It is not functioning well"
obviously you were suggesting she was mentally unwell, do not try and wriggle out of it now please.

I think yabu. She's talking to her children, its not a conversation you need to be involved in, its not excluding you. Why do you need to know if she is telling them to wipe their nose or stop playing rough? It's not like its a grown up conversation you are being left out of.

We have a large multicultural family with several languages spoken amongst us. The parent from another culture almost always speaks to their own children in their own language. I don't think you appreciate how difficult it is to keep a second language alive and used by children who are surrounded by English.

I do find your attitude prevalent amongst british people, who almost never have a second language. I don't think I've ever heard it from fellow europeans who tend to speak several, at least a little. It's a peculiarly arrogant attitude.

My friends don't generally speak to their children in their native languages because they believe it's rude to exclude anyone from the conversation, especially as their children are fluent in English - but if they ever do, they will explain what they've just said - "O has just said "it's cold, and I agreed"". That seems like a good compromise to me.

I can see both pov here.

I live in Germany but only speak English to my dc. Maybe it's not such a huge issue, as all my dc friends have to learn English, and many of the adults I come across can to a greater or lesser extent.

If I were with a German person, I would speak to them in German, but I would 99% of the time talk to my dc in English, because it's automatic, it feel seriously weird to talk to them in German, it feels false and I somehow loose the ability to speak German to them. I can't explain it, but that's just how it is. However, if one of their friends was round I'd probably address the friend in German, but still flip to English for my dc.

And I guess because of what I do, but if my dc are talking in German to their friends, they would look up and call over to me in English.

In the case of the OP, it's not clear if they are just occasional flips to mother tongue, or prolonged and deliberate exclusion conversations. I think there's a big and clear difference.

For example, my df is english, living in England, but speaks french well and wants her ds to speak french, so she speaks to him in French. Not exclusively, but often, and also english. But I find it insanely rude for her to sit and speak french to him in front of us, because she can and does speak english to him, so it feels deliberate attempt to exclude. I would never launch into a German conversation in front of her and certainly not a prolonged one to the exclusion of all others. I guess it depends on when and why she's talking the other language.

"I do find your attitude prevalent amongst british people, who almost never have a second language"
well that is odd as the majority of the British population where I live are bilingual....
you will have to think about taht one, won't you?

Sunny I am not trying to wriggle out of anything. Why would I? In any case, if that is what you think then so be it. If you want to interpret my post as you did, then so be it?

I'm not sure what sort of emotion or reaction you are expecting me to muster here. Whatever it is, I don't have it.

Var's argument about the Rotterham case is plain stupid and unreasonable. Her thoughts on this are bizarre.

I should also make the point that just because something makes you feel uncomfortable doesn;t mean the activity is a problem. Your feelings on the matter are you own affair, it is not the responsibility of the other person to make you feel comfortable.
You seem rather self centred in this matter and I can't see why you would treat such a "dear friend" in such a manner.

Sunny where do you live that most british people you know are bilingual? Not the vast majority of Britain, anyway! Anyway, your personal experience does not affect mine, which was the comment.

whatever newrule, if the only way you can respond to someone you disagree with is by suggesting they have a mental health problem then perhaps you need more English lessons.

SirChenjin you would think that was a solution. When I tried that, in a group of various monoglot and bilingual people and translated for my English speaking friend, she got annoyed because I was 'showing off'. Some people just don't like people speaking more than one language. Jealousy, parochialism, who knows?

"Sunny where do you live that most british people you know are bilingual?"
you see you do not even know about the linguistic reality of the islands where you live, as you would rather just make negative sweeping statements. Who is the little Englander now?

Most people are bilingual where I live too, I think I may live near Sunny.

Again - thanks for all of the debate. When we are together we all speak English. Occasionally one of the DC will ask for something unrelated to the general conversation in their native tongue and my friend will respond in the same language - no problems at all. Or my friend will have something she wants to say to her DC - she will use either her native language or English - again, no problem. The issue is when the conversation has started in English, is a subject that involves us all and then switches to the other language.

I have a couple of Geordie friends who I know are speaking English but I'm buggered if I can understand half the conversation. Maybe I should ask them to speak RP English and not use local idioms every time I go out with them?

well that is odd as the majority of the British population where I live are bilingual

Are they people for whom English is not necessarily their mother tongue, or English speakers who have learnt another language?

yay sir vix I am in the 'spoons!

"Are they people for whom English is not necessarily their mother tongue, or English speakers who have learnt another language?"
guess

I speak a foreign language to my dc, the majority of my friend'a children are bilingual and everyone of them only ever speaks their first language to their dc.

Some children get very upset if their parent speaks to them in a different language to that they are used to communicating in, imagine if your mum or dad started speaking to you in a fake scottish/French/Yorkshire accent, it would just feel really odd.

I see it as a positive thing that my ds has so many friends who can speak so many different languages, he could say "car" in 4 languages when he was 18 months old.

Why not think about picking up some basic skills in the language your friend speaks? It's a great learning opportunity for you and your family.

I speak English to my dc in front of non English speakers all the time.

We live overseas and I think its important to keep their English going. The other non English speaking mums don't seem bothered about it, I think they expect me to speak my native language with my kids. I will speak to dh in the other language though if we are talking in a group of adults.

guess

I'll go with mother tongue speakers who have learnt English.

< hopes I'm right and I win a prize >

I don't live in the UK, Sunny, you might have got that from my post.
"Who is the little Englander now?" I'm afraid you'll have to explain the reference, I don't know what you mean.

It is a documented fact that the UK is a) the only EU country not to have compulsory foreign language teaching in schools, b) has the lowest rate of foreign language learning in schools in the EU (5% at A-level), and c) the lowest rates of self reported bilingualism in the EU (with the majority of those having english as their second language rather than the other way around).

So, I'm not going to argue about your personal experience (even though you rudely dispute mine), the facts seem to speak for themselves.