To ask a friend to stop speaking her own language?

[jujujbel]

I have a very dear friend who is from another country but has lived in the UK for 20 years. Her DC are bilingual. Often, when we are together, she will break off the conversation to speak to her DC in her own language. This makes me uncomfortable and I find it rude but I have never mentioned it. However, a few days ago my DD came home from spending the day with my friends DD (they spend a lot of time together). She talked about how she hated it when they talked in a different language in front of her as it made her feel excluded. I explained that i had felt the same way and that it was actually considered bad manners to do this. I told my DD that if she felt uncomfortable she should say to her friend in as nice a way as possible and that I would do similar with the mum. The very next day, my DD did do this when the situation arose again and explained how it made her feel. She came home quite upset as she had argued with her friend about it.

We were all meeting up later anyway. When we got together my friend immediately said to me 'have you hear detox?' She then went to say, I'll speak to your dd to explain that I'm not talking about her it's just how we speak. I then said that I agreed with my DD and it made us both uncomfortable. My friend was shocked that I found her rude. I explained that it was only in the context where we are all having a conversation in English and they then break away to speak in a different language. Although I know they are not saying anything bad about us it is a horrible feeling and I don't understand why they feel the new to do it. I compared it to whispering. I have been very clear that it is only in the context of a group conversation being started in a shared language and then being continued in a language that not all of the group can understand.

My friend has now told me she will not speak her own language in front of my DD but that she will distance herself from us. She feels I am the inconsiderate one and that I am discriminating against her.

I am so hurt and confused. I guess I am just looking for a bit of MN perspective.

Sorry for the essay.

Thank

I don't think het friend is trying go be controlling. I think she is upset by how OP brought it up. It's often a case of how something is said then what when it comes to sensitive topics.

OP, your friend has made the decision to distance herself from you. I would have done the same if I were her. You want her to speak exclusively in English, her second language when you are around, in her own house? From what you say, this is brief breaks in conversations and you know she is not bad mouthing you. Friendships require compromise and not imposing your likes or dislikes. If you had handled this differently, showing some appreciation for your friend's position, then the outcome may have been different. C
Accusing such a good friend of being rude without first trying to understand why she breaks off now and then to speak her language, was never going to do much for your friendship.

I think you are both right actually, I am born in the UK but I hated my mum speaking to me in her language as I found it embarrassing but I am so glad she did as now as a adult when I go to visit family I can communicate with them.

I speak to my children in my second language (English will always be my first) even though they will reply back in English. I see it as a positive that my children can understand 2 languages fluently.

I do find though that I may start a conversation in English and switch languages without even noticing, I only know when someone points it out.

Var, I take it that if you had native English speaking colleagues in your time abroad they all spoke to their children in the language of the country they lived in, right, given that is the "important" one?

there is some debate on the subject var; some say that bilingualism means that you can express yourself equally well in two langauges, others claim that just being able to get by confers 'bilingualism' on one.

uh, now you're just sounding odd var.

MeeWhoo - of course. Do you expect toddlers living in a foreign country to be able to speak English to my children. We moved, so we adapted.

I think it is exactly to do with the complexities of bringing up bilingual children, var - and it's very telling that the OP doesn't specify whether the situation arises between the children together, or only when the mother speaks to the children (in the first case, yes, a little rude of the children - in the second, fine, take offence, but personally I find speaking to my kids in their other language about as comfortable as getting on the bus with my slippers on).

And why you bring up Rotherham I have NO idea.

I can't believe this has been linked to Rotherham!

exactly the same motivation that led to the failure to listen to the victims in Rotherham and Nottingham i.e. a greater concern to be seen to be welcoming of all ethnicites

Yes, that's the same. In a parallel universe populated only by people who left their brain on the bus.

GreatAuntDinah - maybe, but I don't want to give my background or name the countries as it makes me findable on google. I like being anonymous. So, i won't justify further.

OP, I have been in the situation of not speaking the majority language on so many occasions that I have learnt to just let it wash over me. In some situations, it simply isn't reasonable or possible for others to switch languages to accommodate one individual, so why not think of this as good experience that will help your dc cope in later life?

sure var, people are going to google a couple of country names and your mn nick and identify you and..........umm.....I dunno.

I was referring to the Rotherham business.

I think the rules are different with kids anyway. I might pull my child away and whisper to them, "share, please" or "no hitting". I would generally never pull an adult out of a group and whisper to them.

Linking it to Rotherham just sounds like a) Forriners are all bastards or b) advanced godwin's law.

I like being anonymous

With views like yours I'm not fucking surprised. Linking OP's friend occasionally speaking to her daughter in her mother tongue to the Rotherham situation?

My mn name is only on mn. The countries are more of a specific combination. I didn't like it when I lived abroad and people who I didn't know knew me. Anyway this is off topic.

YABU - my DH and I speak our respective languages to our DS and his speech therapist bangs on about how we each should only and only converse in our languages (OPOL) and not switch, even if it means I do not understand the conversation between DS and DH, and vice versa. A total pain as DH and I cannot converse in each other's languages, however that is the method. What the friend did is in line with how children learn languages.

Also whilst you are proud of your daughter, it is not impressive to have a child tell you that you are being rude in the current circumstances, when it is clearly not the case and it was not intended to mock/ridicule or exclude on purpose.

Marmoset, are you finding you're picking up any of DH's language? I've just moved to DH's home country and unexpectedly I find I can understand pretty much everything people say to me day to day. Can't speak a bloody word of it though! Very frustrating.

Var - you just sound overly paranoid to me.

Var, I don't know you but I feel very embarrassed for you. You may need to see your doctor because something (perhaps undiagnosed) is wrong with your brain. It is not functioning well.

I think YABU OP. If she is a nice woman and you know they aren't talking about you, then why does it matter?

It probably takes a huge amount of effort to ensure her children maintain their culture/ first language and putting restrictions on how she can and can't talk to them is unfair. She is doing the best thing for them by bringing them up bilingual, as it may afford them opportunities in the future.

Especially if you are saying they shouldn't speak their own language in their own home! I think we sometimes think that English is superior just because most people speak it, and it can make us lazy. Why not make a little effort to learn a bit of her language?

newrule that is not necessary you have no idea what is going on in var's life. And suggesting that she might have a mental health problem in that snidy little way is just plain nasty.