To ask a friend to stop speaking her own language?

[jujujbel]

I have a very dear friend who is from another country but has lived in the UK for 20 years. Her DC are bilingual. Often, when we are together, she will break off the conversation to speak to her DC in her own language. This makes me uncomfortable and I find it rude but I have never mentioned it. However, a few days ago my DD came home from spending the day with my friends DD (they spend a lot of time together). She talked about how she hated it when they talked in a different language in front of her as it made her feel excluded. I explained that i had felt the same way and that it was actually considered bad manners to do this. I told my DD that if she felt uncomfortable she should say to her friend in as nice a way as possible and that I would do similar with the mum. The very next day, my DD did do this when the situation arose again and explained how it made her feel. She came home quite upset as she had argued with her friend about it.

We were all meeting up later anyway. When we got together my friend immediately said to me 'have you hear detox?' She then went to say, I'll speak to your dd to explain that I'm not talking about her it's just how we speak. I then said that I agreed with my DD and it made us both uncomfortable. My friend was shocked that I found her rude. I explained that it was only in the context where we are all having a conversation in English and they then break away to speak in a different language. Although I know they are not saying anything bad about us it is a horrible feeling and I don't understand why they feel the new to do it. I compared it to whispering. I have been very clear that it is only in the context of a group conversation being started in a shared language and then being continued in a language that not all of the group can understand.

My friend has now told me she will not speak her own language in front of my DD but that she will distance herself from us. She feels I am the inconsiderate one and that I am discriminating against her.

I am so hurt and confused. I guess I am just looking for a bit of MN perspective.

Sorry for the essay.

Thank

How on earth is it "akin to whispering" to speak to your own child in your mother tongue.

It is not "akin to whispering" it is the natural way to speak to your child, if speaking directly to them not to others as well.

Additionally people do speak to their children in a whisper or pull them aside to speak to them in the context the OP describes - along the lines of "That' s enough! I've said no" or "Stop it now, I've explained why it won't be possible today - you know you're not allowed a sleep over because you refused to tidy your room, so there's no point arguing the toss now" or "If visiting mum says no I can't change that, no point trying to argue" or even "stop whining now" or "Go and wipe your nose, it's streaming" :o

Nobody has any right to tell a parent not to speak to their child in their mother tongue. It is not rude it is natural, and the parents who stop doing it for fear of offending the insecure end up with children unable or embarrassed to speak their mother tongue - not offending the professionally offended or insecure is not worth that.

Agree completely, MrTumbles.

Also think of the poor child whose "friend" just told her she's rude for speaking to her mum in their language - way to make a child embarrassed, upset, angry and defensive about something she's probably thought of as either just normal, or as special up to now.

The other mum may be dealing with the fallout from that for months - including her DD possibly refusing to speak her language and being angry with her mother for speaking it.

If it's worked out that way no blooming wonder the other mum is almighty pissed off!

It could even be quite significantly offensive if the friend's language has a history of political oppression like many do.

Agree with Mr Tumbles. Stick to monoglot English friends from now on OP. And teach your DD the same. How sad for your both.

Basically, you want your friend to talk to her DD in a language you can understand so that you can monitor their conversation.

I agree with MrTumbles - stick to monoglot friends.

If I cut everyone out of my life who speaks their native tongue with their children on the grounds that I can't understand them, I'd cut off several good friends and relatives.

Really, you need to stop being so paranoid

Haven't rtft but have to say: I'm not British. My first child was born in England (Husband is british). We've since moved back to my home country and I'm ashamed that my child cannot speak my native language. Because I was so worried about offending anyone or being seen as rude, I just couldn't keep up with speaking my language to them while we lived in England. I regret that every day.

Basically, you want your friend to talk to her DD in a language you can understand so that you can monitor their conversation

I don't think you read the OP's last post. I will repeat: The issue is when the conversation has started in English, is a subject that involves us all and then switches to the other language.

How is that not rude?

Had to take a break to deal with all the after school stuff. Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond. I realise that I am repeating myself but I want to stress that I have no issues at all with my friend speaking her native language to her DC's. The only issue is when we are having a group discussion (usually about what we are planning to do) and they then carry on the conversation in a different language. So a group conversation about something that impacts us all is then carried on to the exclusion of some of those involved.this is the same for my Dd when she is with them in that she will discuss plans with her friend who will then turn to her mum and carry on the conversation in a language my DD does not understand. she has picked up a few words and phrases so understands that they are still discussing the plans but is not able to participate.

GreatAuntDinah I'm trying to work out which way round you mean. For example, people I know who are First Nation, it would be hideously offensive and ignorant of me to complain if they spoke their language around me because of colonialism and the brutal history of English meets SEN?O?EN, for example. Is that what you mean?

What a wonderful opportunity for your DD to learn a language. Speak to the parents of her friend and ask if they will help you DD to learn their language. I used to listen to my Ds speaking to his friends and could hardly keep up as he had learnt so quickly. What a wonderful opportunity for your DD to learn, grasp it and help and encourage her.

Your comment Wobblyhalo is exactly why parents bringing up bilingual children will take the risk of being seen as rude occasionally.

Not read the whole thread so sorry if I am repeating something that has already been said. My children we're born and raised in a different country. I was ok at the language, had lots of friends who were very patient with me if there was ever something that I wanted to say and couldn't quite get across. We had the whole, I speak English, husband speaks native language thing going on. When we were with others we would try to stick to the language of the group. Now, there were times when I needed to convey something to the children, that couldn't wait. Either safety, behavioural or whatever. I could have faffed about trying to find the right grammar and vocabulary, wasting precious time, or I could just get my message across to the children in English, in the quickest possible way. Never once was I accused of being rude, in fact people were always very complimentary and told me it was wonderful the children could converse in two languages. I presume if you are friends with this family, you believe them to be nice people? Then why on earth would you be paranoid enough to think they were saying something bad about you? Even if this is not how you feel, I am sure this is how it came across to this friend. Trust is an important thing in s friendship as is acceptance of our differences. She must be feeling very sad about this. I know I would be, if it had happened to me.

YA both BU. I can't believe you would find your friend rude for speaking to her daughter in her own language, that is how children learn, by consistency of one person one language, and by your own admission it was to break off to say something different to her DD aside from your English conversation.

However she should make an effort to include your DD at hers.

Attitudes like yours are why I have so many lovely European friends bringing up English monolingual children who can't communicate with their grandparents and cousins, so sad.

I think YABVU. When you are bringing up bilingual children, speaking to them in your mother tongue is the only way to maintain a language in an overwhelmingly English-speaking world. If you are trying to bring up your children bilingually the only real choice you have is to speak to them all the time in your mother tongue, or in a short time they will refuse to speak the language to their parent(s) and will only speak in English as that seems to them to be the prevailing culture. Their mother being embarrassed is only likely to accelerate the process. Anybody who thinks otherwise has literally no idea about the bilingualism process and should keep their ill-baked thoughts to themselves. Ultimately it really is NOYFB is this mum is telling her children to nip to the loo in another language. Plus it would have been a golden opportunity for your DC to be exposed to another language and not become small-minded and arrogant about the value of their own language.

I think this mum is right to distance herself from you.

My polish friend always talks english around us and she has actually made reference to it thinking it rude to speak Polish when her DD speaks English as well as my children (no accent even) and she speaks English fluently with an accent. I had previously no views on this. The only time she speaks Polish is if quietly telling her DD off in public) and in fairness I too would like another language that other people couldn't understand for this purpose!), counting, or speaking on the telephone. They do generally speak Polish at home but if I was there, when her husband came through the door, she would speak English. My DD says that if she is there, they do speak some Polish but she thinks it's great to be bi-lingual and is impressed with it, rather than feeling uncomfortable.

I guess speaking in another language could come across as rude, depending how it's done but I would never break up a friendship over it and the etiquette "rules" have come from her rather than me.

It's a tough one but I think on the whole YANBU. I have a bilingual friend who speaks almost exclusively to her DC in her native language but she wouldn't dream of excluding anyone by changing to her native language when we were involved in the conversation eg discussing plans. She'd also be mortified if anyone told her they felt excluded, rather than saying she needed to distance herself from me (though granted, I never would say that).

OP - we are a bilingual family practising the One Parent One Language system. It is hard for me to talk to my DCs in any other language than the "mother" tongue. Even the "father" tongue, in which I am completely fluent, is difficult. It feels so strange, unnatural and clumsy. How can explain how hard it is? I suppose an analogy would be if you had to call your DCs by a different name if someone else came into the room.

I really do make the effort when the children have friends around to speak the communal language but sometimes, if I need to speak quickly, I will resort to the mother tongue. If what I have said is relevant to the guests, then I repeat it. Even if I speak the communal language to my children, they reply to me in the mother tongue.

Please, please, please, believe me when I say that the overwhelming majority of bilingual people do not switch to their language to exclude you. They do it because it is utterly natural and they are probably not even aware that they are doing it.

So, in conclusion, I think YABU and you could have handled it better. I hope things work out for you and your friend.

YANBU. You have explained the reason why you feel excluded very well and the particular context. Your friend has plenty of time outside of time with friends to speak their language.

Breaking off mid conversation is rude, its the same level of rudeness as looking at social media and responding to texts.

I will always speak German to my children. I'll translate or explain what I've said to non-German speakers, but I will not give up on the consistent OPOL approach, which is my children's only chance to become fluent in my native language. By all means requesting a running commentary as to not feel excluded is fine, but expecting that only your language is spoken is very unreasonable

My dd is fully bilingual, I'm not, though I get by. I speak to her in English.

If we're speaking together or I speak with another English person but within a group, I do apologise, in a truly English way. I don't think I've ever caused offence, at least I hope not. It's just easier. I don't think you should take it personally.

YABU

I have seen many polite parents using only English in company and I think it is a major obstacle to their kids' bilingualism. While children are young it helps for them to think they have no option other than to speak the minority language to the minority parent.

My DH only ever addresses our children in his language and oldest is basically bilingual, others are learning. It is very hard to bring kids up with 2 languages, especially if you are not part of a large expat community so your friend deserves support and understanding

You don't translate when you speak.
You interpret.

As you were...

Yes MrsTerryPratchett that's what I mean. There's a definite whiff of cultural imperialism about the expectation that everyone should revert to English as the default language.

Yanbu

It is rude of course it is. Nothing wrong with using more than one language but better to explain to the person who doesn't understand what you've just said.

That's what people I know,who speak two languages do.

So it isn't the fact they're speaking a different language, it is the fact that they're not explaining and excluding people.