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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask a friend to stop speaking her own language?

434 replies

jujujbel · 13/02/2015 12:23

I have a very dear friend who is from another country but has lived in the UK for 20 years. Her DC are bilingual. Often, when we are together, she will break off the conversation to speak to her DC in her own language. This makes me uncomfortable and I find it rude but I have never mentioned it. However, a few days ago my DD came home from spending the day with my friends DD (they spend a lot of time together). She talked about how she hated it when they talked in a different language in front of her as it made her feel excluded. I explained that i had felt the same way and that it was actually considered bad manners to do this. I told my DD that if she felt uncomfortable she should say to her friend in as nice a way as possible and that I would do similar with the mum. The very next day, my DD did do this when the situation arose again and explained how it made her feel. She came home quite upset as she had argued with her friend about it.

We were all meeting up later anyway. When we got together my friend immediately said to me 'have you hear detox?' She then went to say, I'll speak to your dd to explain that I'm not talking about her it's just how we speak. I then said that I agreed with my DD and it made us both uncomfortable. My friend was shocked that I found her rude. I explained that it was only in the context where we are all having a conversation in English and they then break away to speak in a different language. Although I know they are not saying anything bad about us it is a horrible feeling and I don't understand why they feel the new to do it. I compared it to whispering. I have been very clear that it is only in the context of a group conversation being started in a shared language and then being continued in a language that not all of the group can understand.

My friend has now told me she will not speak her own language in front of my DD but that she will distance herself from us. She feels I am the inconsiderate one and that I am discriminating against her.

I am so hurt and confused. I guess I am just looking for a bit of MN perspective.

Sorry for the essay.

Thank

OP posts:
niceday · 13/02/2015 16:20

I am with BauerTime here.
Your friend never realised it made you uncomfortable. Now she may feel uncomfortable with you because she'd be thinking what else annoys you that you have never mentioned.
It is rude to have a discussion that excludes a group of people. On the other hand, whenever she tells her child in their language in front of you "Please, take your dirty socks off the table and go and wash your face" - or anything else that is very quick and does not concern you, I see no problem with that. It is not a discussion. If, however, they have 5-10 min conversations with each other and you just sit there waiting - that is a problem that you should have addressed long time ago.

SunnyBaudelaire · 13/02/2015 16:20

totally agree lurkinghubby, no time spent learning a language, any language, is ever wasted.

LurkingHusband · 13/02/2015 16:20

Anyone remember that news story a while back where German tourists had better spelling than native English speakers ?

SunnyBaudelaire · 13/02/2015 16:21

I seriously doubt it lurking! anyway these things always have an agenda dont they? I wonder who they asked?

GreatAuntDinah · 13/02/2015 16:32

I certainly write better in my second language than 90% of my pupils, so I can well believe it.

LurkingHusband · 13/02/2015 16:32

SunnyBaudelaire

Oh, I didn't mean just languages. Any learning is never a waste.

I have a very very very low threshold for people I find deliberately ignorant (looks a NC in-laws). Especially when they parade their ignorance as a badge of honour. Just taking the FiL as an example. 30 years working in a factory, alongside Muslims, Sikhs, Afro Carribeans. Yet still had no idea about Ramadan, Eid, what a Gudwara is. Why Sikhs wear turbans.

Seriously ? After thirty years.

On holiday in Spain a few years ago, I was speaking to a shopkeeper, and one of the Brits who lived on the playa drifted in. Asked for his cigarettes (in English, and pointing) and walked out. The shopkeeper said he had lived there ten years and never spoken Spanish. Meanwhile the shopkeeper (who wasn't Spanish Smile had Spanish, Italian, German and French as well as English).

The only thing I will say, is if you do want to learn a foreign tongue, then it would be hard to design somewhere more unfriendly than the UK Sad. Mainly because (with all due respect to Welsh speakers) unlike mainland Europe, we don't actually butt up to anywhere that would give us the practice. There's a reason quite a few people from Turin can speak French, and probably German in the same way some Austrians can speak Italian. Coupled with the fact that unless you really try, you'll be spoken to in English anywhere in Europe - they love to show off and practice !

SunnyBaudelaire · 13/02/2015 16:33

well so could I if I was teaching school, greatauntdinah! In fact I should bloody hope so.

Mistigri · 13/02/2015 16:34

How many people replying here have any experience of bilingualism?

We are a bilingual family. Sometimes we talk in my native language when there are others present who don't speak that language. Bilingual children use a variety of cues for deciding which language to use in which situation - often it isn't a conscious decision. Of course we are careful not to let others feel excluded (eg children visiting for a play date).

I'm often in situations where I don't understand all the exchanges - for eg we have friends who are trilingual, the kids speak German to their mum (who also speaks English and French) and their grandma (who only speaks German). If they address their grandma in German I don't feel excluded or have a burning need to know what's going on. If I did, I'd go away and brush up on my German ...

So I do think you are being a bit over-sensitive tbh.

MrTumblesBavarianFanbase · 13/02/2015 16:34

Lurkinghusband you aren't my German husband are you? [becomes extremely paranoid*

My German husband does spell better than me in English (and I am a native English speaker with an English Literature degree) Blush I do have a wider English vocabulary than him, but it is beyond doubt his spelling is better. No idea if anything can be extrapolated from that though - most of the Germans I know are too shy to speak any English to me, but the ones I teach English to don't have a magical talent for spelling in English.

SunnyBaudelaire · 13/02/2015 16:36

oh god the brits in Spain are an embarrassment.
I was in the tourist office in Seville once asking directions to somehwere, the guy asked if I was Russian? When I said ' no, soy inglesa' you could see the shock on his face!
Yes certainly it is hard to practice in eg Germany or Greece where they cannot stand to hear their language mangled, and also like to show off their English!

AShiningTiger · 13/02/2015 16:37

Is this about me? Wink

kelda · 13/02/2015 16:37

MrTumble - my flemish dh regularly beats me at Scrabble in englishBlush.

MrsSchadenfreude · 13/02/2015 16:39

I think YANBU if they all have a conversation in the other language while you are there. If the Mum says to the son "Leave your willy alone" or "Don't pick your nose", then I think that is fine in her own language, and no need to translate it for you.

My extended family is multilingual, and while you might be having a conversation with John about gardening in English, if Ildiko, whose English is not so good, comes over, you might say to Ildiko, in her language, which John, being a monoglot Little Englander Grin, does not speak, "John and I were talking about gardening and which apples we grow." You then say to John "I was telling Ildiko, we were talking about apples." Ildiko then tells you something, in your shared language, that they make cider from their apples. You relay this to John. Ildiko is now up to speed, and can contribute to the conversation in her not-so-hot English, or you carry on translating for both her and John.

It is rude, and does exclude people if you have full conversations, which they cannot understand, when you are in their company. But barked instructions to children are fine. Grin

Bonsoir · 13/02/2015 16:40

I write French far better than my French DP (who is supposedly highly educated). He has a much wider vocabulary than me though.

WorraLiberty · 13/02/2015 16:41

YANBU

Over 40% of pupils at my DC's school have English as a second language and it's widely considered rude amongst their families to do that, especially when you have invited someone to your home.

The only time it seems to be acceptable, is when there is someone else in the house who doesn't speak English.

It's about good manners imo and in the opinions of many of their friends.

LurkingHusband · 13/02/2015 16:42

MrTumblesBavarianFanbase

No, my German would be very very poor - I know it has 3 genders, and a propensity for gluing words together in some sort of weird alliance with Welsh to make non-speakers swallow their own tongue. But beyond some key words, I'd be lost - although I pride myself on a (work) visit to Frankfurt being able to hail a taxi and give the address in German. Only to have the driver reply in flawless English Sad. Which happens everywhere.

I'll see if I can post a link ... it was either BBC or Mail. The one comment which stood out for me was the German tourist who got 20/20 (no English speaker did) saying that in Germany they have to learn the spelling by rote. Every single word. So they don't worry about the weird things which can trip the unwary. At the risk of straying into areas I know nothing about, it does beg the question as to how we teach spelling (if we still do).

SunnyBaudelaire · 13/02/2015 16:42

the vocabulary is the thing isnt it bonsoir? I do not think that anyone who has learnt say English as a second language could ever have the vocab of a native speaker..,,,

TooMuchRain · 13/02/2015 16:44

I think you are being very unreasonable, it is hugely important to maintain consistency when bringing children up bilingual. And it would be so unnatural feeling.

Bonsoir · 13/02/2015 16:45

It's really hard to catch up on the vocabulary acquisition of childhood. And vocabulary scaffolds more vocabulary and when you haven't got the basics it's difficult to retain the detail. Plus so much of vocabulary acquisition and retention is down to repetition.

SunnyBaudelaire · 13/02/2015 16:46

scaffolding? isnt that Vygotsky?
Endlessly fascinating anyway.

Bonsoir · 13/02/2015 16:49

I have however discovered, while testing DD on homework, that DP's grasp of the more obscure tenses in French is no better than mine.

SunnyBaudelaire · 13/02/2015 16:53

so tell me bonsoir, what are the more obscure tenses in French? I know in English we have about 16 if you count the conditionals. But I would not bother teaching the past perfect to most students.

GreatAuntDinah · 13/02/2015 16:55

the vocabulary is the thing isnt it bonsoir? I do not think that anyone who has learnt say English as a second language could ever have the vocab of a native speaker

I have a wider vocab than DH because I have several more years of formal education than him.

SunnyBaudelaire · 13/02/2015 16:56

I doubt it dinah if you have English as a second language and he does not.
But that is not clear.

DoraGora · 13/02/2015 16:59

It's a tough one. My family has several languages. Our friends have several languages. We all speak different languages to each other at different times. When non speakers are present the convention is usually to keep the foreign tongue to a minimum. The only exception is with the grandparents, when the entire evening will often exclude somebody. But, that's just the way it is. I would say it's rude to exclude a non speaker for lengthy periods if it's not necessary. (My own view of our grandparent custom is that it's marginally rude also, but at their age, it's excusable.)

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