to move DD from her nice independent school where she has a scholarship because her brother didn't get offered one? (PART 2)

[middleschoolmuddle]

...just in case there is something else I need to hear.

Of course we pass on cultural capital to our DC but how valuable that capital is, changes.

What was valuable for is , won't necessarily play for the yoof.

Trad British middle class values and mores are now much less important/valuable than ten, twenty years ago.

Good schools know this and keep up hugely. In a way it's easy, because the dominant group , who decide what cultural capital is most valuable, are there in numbers.

Parents who want to pass on the most valuable cultural capital have to keep working at gaining it themselves, keeping up to date etc.

Things don't stay still!

Its exactly that cultural capital that enabled grammar school pupils from 50's to break into the old boys network in London having gone to grammars set up like public schools. "

Now, I don't actually think this is true. The number of grammar school boys who broke into th OBN was miniscule

It was a break though non the less in a previously closed shop.

DD's school is putting on a careers convention (big event with representatives from a wide variety of professions plus keynote speaker) and Y9 students and their parents are invited (as are the older year groups). That and also, each week this term there has been a lunchtime lecture covering a range of different careers.

I think this is a superb thing for the school to be doing and I'm looking forward to attending.

As far as I know, our local state school doesn't offer anything like that at as early a stage, partly because DC only join the school in Y9 but I'm sure there would be budgetary constraints too and also there are many more DC to be accommodated so opening it up to the whole school just isn't practical.

Your local state school mightn't offer anything like that, op, but our one certainly does. Last week, as it happens.

You've still failed to give any real life examples of "advantages" that may only be found in the independent sector. Theatre trips and careers conventions are not exclusive to private.
And my dd is doing a Latin GCSE at a state school.
There are no yacht boy lookalikes there. But I see that as a good thing.

Flogging My DD is binning Latin for GCSE as she can't see a use for it.

My DD is binning Latin for GCSE as she can't see a use for it.

Personally I think your DD deserves better parental educational guidance than this ...

DD has been studying Latin for the last 3 years and she is excellent at it. She feels that she has already learnt a lot about English grammar and that it has been a good preparation for learning MFLs - she'll continue with German (and possibly French) but as I said, will ditch the Latin.

I didn't see the need to guide her otherwise Zero.

Ds's school- which you would rather die than send your child to- has a big science based careers day in year 8 before they choose options, with representatives from scientific professions and local businesses. It is, I believe, not uncommon. No Latin though.

DD has no choice but to study all 3 sciences Hak.

It's really good to hear that other schools are offering students these career opportunities too.

Why is the response always, "but X, Y, Z is available at my DC's state school"? That's not relevant in the slightest to a private school parent. I don't care if anyone else's state school is rich in the arts or offers half a dozen foreign languages. Our local catchment doesn't and that's all that concerns me. I know some state schools do offer far more opportunities- I went to one and that's the reason we went private here- to replicate my state school experience.

It's relevant to a private school wannabe who can't actually afford private school, Taz? If you're about to sell your soul to the Devil to get something you couldn't otherwise reach; it's useful to know why you're doing it. Op seems unclear.

My DD's state school offers French, Spanish, German, Russian and Latin at gcse. It also has weekly careers events in year 8 and lots of theatre trips

It was more of a general comment. These threads always go this way- private school parents are asked what their private school offers that can't be found in the state sector. Private school parents respond that their child is able to do X, Y, Z. State parent A says, my child can do X, state parent B says, may child can do Y etc. It completely misses the point that the private school parent is usually saying that their private school offers more than their local state school. I'm pretty sure the OP is aware of this as well.

In the interests of fairness, though, I'll admit Latin isn't actually offered at her school per se.

St. Paul's offer a Latin GCSE to students from the surrounding area "who wouldn't otherwise have it available to them"; in other words: the state school poor relations.
There are very limited places, however, and she only got a place because of her grades.

Of course private schools offer more than state schools - they have loads of money- it would be shocking if they didn't. I could list 10 things without thinking that our nearest privTe school offers that ds's doesn't. Them point here is that the op is risking her family's financial security for things that many state
schools do offer. Or which can easily be accessed outside school. Or which are of little practical benefit- like nice
Lunches. Which strikes me as strange. To say the least.

OP Setting aside the place of Latin in western culture it is quite surprising that, after all the effort to keep your DD at this school, you don't want to encourage her to gain a qualification that will forever mark her out as having received a privileged education.

IME it's pretty much taken for granted that children will study it to GCSE level at the most selective independent schools. Isn't this what you are paying for?

More seriously - Latin is hard. If she's good at it it seems a real shame not to acquire the GCSE. A high grade in this subject really would enhance her CV.

Middleschoolmuddle - so what's your plan at the moment? Still to leave DD there until after her GCSE's? And don't forget the term's notice on fees - guess you have until Easter if she is to leave at the end of this academic year.

Is there any chance the school would up her scholarship? I know the school my eldest is soon to go to is very rigid and won't negotiate but some may.

The most intelligent person I know grew up in a deprived area and went to a poor school. Didn't stop them going to a decent uni and getting a decent degree and hasn't held them back career wise.

To be honest if the only way people can get in to decent unis is to have thousands spent on their education then at some point it will catch up with them because at some point they all be in the pool of gifted people who got to Oxford and the like purely on their own merit.

If your children are bright enough Op they will get in to a decent uni. I went to a state school (albeit a very good one) and had class mates whonwent to top unis. Even i made it to a russell group one without too much effort... And that was sufficient for what I wanted. My friendship group includes doctors, accountants, solicitors and a headvteacher and a number of phds as well as a couple of average earners (,of which i am one) but most in professional careers. To the best of my knowledge none of them were privately educated. Yes if you can afford it I can see why people would give their children the help but in your situation it is madness.

Besides unless they want to do law or medicine etc I would advise any youngster today to consider a vocation rather than going to uni for the sake of it. There are a lot of unemployed graduates out there ,(maybe not those with top uni degrees, but there is no guarantee your children will get to the likes of Oxbridge. The highest earner I know left school at 16 but has built specialist skills.... He is also the person I know who most loves his job.

As a Modern Languages graduate, I think Latin is more important than many think. It does seem a shame to drop it without doing GCSE after 3 years of study, but if she is very good then hopefully she will retain the benefit. I can see the benefit after that in stopping Latin and getting on with subjects esp. languages she does want to take further. But it is certainly useful. I think it might have been the word 'binning' that got my hackles up.

The thing about this thread is OP - or on the previous one - seemed all of a dither about her plans for financial reasons. That seemed to be why she began the discussion. So it seems quite apt for those of us with experience of the state sector to mention a lot is possible there. Of course it depends on the area. But I think OP - no question of checking back - did suggest her local state secondary was okay. And anyway, if the family is talking of moving, maybe she has a few more options which the family can afford.

OP has given me the impression anyway that she has some perhaps delusional idea (I have stated my bias!) that private is best, when it isn't necessarily so if a family is struggling to pay for it and there are many options, even for some subjects a bit of sharing of resources between sectors as a PP above has said. For senior pupils anyway. And considerable community resources in many places for things like music, drama and art, all subjects the OP regards as important, and rightly so.

I don't think a them and us thing between private and state ed parents is useful or indeed totally realistic. At the end of the day, we all just want the best for our children.

IME it's pretty much taken for granted that children will study it to GCSE level at the most selective independent schools. Isn't this what you are paying for?

I feel I may be lacking the cultural capital to validate this statement :)

Does anyone else have an opinion on its validity?

NotGoingOut17 Sun 15-Feb-15 17:51:50

I think your right.

I just wonder what road is best to get there, if you can put them on a pleasant and softer road...why not?

If you can choose?

BTW I am a mod languages graduate who became a nurse - palaeontology didn't appeal! DH is a classics graduate who did archaeology amongst other things. We joke his knowledge of bone health relates to bones without skin and muscle, whereas my knowledge is a fair bit more up-to-date and involves live people.

Oooh - I'd love to see figures on Latin GCSE take up OP. (Statistics are not my thing - I'm commenting purely from my own impressions over two or three generations.)

But yeah - talk of "binning Latin because there's no use for it" frankly doesn't make you sound like the "right" kind of parent. (Yes, my comment is pure intellectual snobbery.)

One of DDs peers in our local state school has had 5 different 'maths teachers' since the start of term. On what planet is that good?