...to ask MN-ers NOT to join in this glorification of domestic abuse? (contains spoilers)

[Floundering]

Fifty Shades of Shite

Can't believe the naivety and abuse deniers on here and amongst my friends.

DV campaigners such as Womens Aid & National Centre for Domestic Violence are urging people not to see this film.

It is not "just a piece of fun" it normalises abusive, controlling relationships as sexy, and it really bothers me so many women are colluding in supporting such crap that could hurt other more vulnerable women.

The BDSM community are frothing too as if done properly between 2 consenting adults with lots of planning, mutual respect and lots of affection and downtime after it can, for some, apparently be mindblowing. ( doesn't lift my skirt but respect those who do enjoy) this is not portrayed safely in this film.

Coming in this late and no doubt lots of PP have said the same but YABU. It's sexual fantasy and many women like it. It has nothing to do with do with domestic abuse.

And of course it's wrong to do it as thats a reality as opposed to thinking it which was a fantasy

Good god. Circles of loopiness.

I think this debate and the pearl clutching are really and truly about the audacity of women saying they like to be spanked or have rough sex/rape scenarios with men.

It doesn't sit well with some mumsnetters who see it as a betrayal of the sisterhood and a weakness.

That's the problem here. That's why people are getting so worked up and telling posters their fantasies are wrong.

It's plain old fashioned sexism.

On that note I am off to whip the old man.

Seems to me Sliced is saying that she genuinely doesn't consent at first, but seconds/minutes after penetration has started she does consent. Legally, that is rape that then becomes not rape.

It's analogous to those people who 'pre-consent' to being penetrated in their sleep, because they fantasize about waking up to it. Whilst asleep, legally it is rape, when she wakes up and wants it to continue it becomes not rape.

However, the legal status doesn't matter unless a rape is reported.

The potential danger in Slice's case is if she suddenly is in the situation where her non-consent doesn't change to consent and her partner doesn't realise this.

No Maryz of course your argument is so intellectual I don't understand it. You are indeed far far too clever for me.

You think it's a good idea for women to hide or lie about their fantasies incase men then think they can rape them in real life.

Not sure who you are patronising more here men or women?

Over and out now as the thread has got stale.

I never said that everything between consenting adults should be okay please learn to quote me properly as you expect it of me. I did not want to discuss consensual murder or these other things as I said that I could argue both sides and fall in the middle. I did not say I agreed with it

Ok I did not say any act between consenting adults was ok I said it was ok with reference to the law!

Don't be a silly billy.

pineapple and betty you have serious comprehension problems if you think those quotes have the meaning you attributed to them.

Also betty you seem unable to distinguish when people are talking about fantasy and talking about reality. sliced has made it clear her H forces himself on her when she doesn't want him to.

But as it turns out, Hamiltoes thinks canibalism is okay so presumably she thinks chopping legs off is fine and dandy as well.

So, asking whether it's okay to chop someone's legs of with consent = loopy
Thinking it's okay to eat someone with consent = the voice of reason.

Nowt strange as folk.

Of course pineapple it's an uphill job isn't it.

pineapple please learn to quote me properly as you expect it of me.

excuse me whilst I recover from this irony overload.

betty BDSM is in fact illegal if it causes ABH. That doesn't seem to have stopped your support of that. slice's H raping her when she doesn't consent is also illegal, again, no problem as far as your concerned.

excuse me whilst I recover from this inconsistency overload.

Carry on maintaining thousands of years of male domination of women in your bedrooms / heads in the name of feminism.

I wish I had an irony fetish, I'd be well sorted here.

I actually do have an irony fetish!

phwoooooar.

The whole 'pre-consent' thing worries me to be honest. I mean, if you're not consenting at the point of penetration then surely physical injury is a distinct possibility. Particularly with anal penetration.

Take care is my advice.

See there you have it.

The real reason for the outrage.

flora thank you for proving my point that it's all about not liking women expressing certain fantasies as they arnt deemed as feminist.

You said it just there.

And you obviously have no real problem separating fantasy and reality just like Maryz.

The fact is you don't like these fantasies so prefer to squash them.

Hilarious.

betty I don't know what you're on but when I want to stop my brain working, I'd like to have some.

I wondered when feminism would rear it's head. I am a feminist but that means have the equal right to chose what I want in the bedroom as I do. I will support slide because that is what she wants from sex. I will continue to let my dh whip me and cause some physical harm because it is what I like but feel free to report my illegal activities

feminism reared it's head when I first posted about why I don't like BDSM, which was to you pineapple though you've clearly forgotten:

----
Just because plenty of women have fantasies doesn't mean we should disregard the context for them. Girl's and women's sexual fantasies develop in the context of our society and culture. Our culture places women as subordinate to men, women have a high risk of sexual violence from men and, as lurcio notes above, this is developing further into girls feeling pressured into having anal sex they don't enjoy. The same studies asked the boys if they thought the girls liked anal sex and they predominantly thought the girls not only didn't like after the fact, but they knew beforehand they wouldn't like it. We don't develop our sexuality in an environment of sexual freedom but of sexual domination by men.

By taking on those fantasies, women take cues from society and culture and turn them into something they do to themselves. That might feel "empowering" by creating a feeling that it's just sexy fun because I am doing it to myself, I am in control. But it is just internalising and fetishising the subordination that is imposed on women. There's no real empowerment in it, in fact it obscures the subordination and helps maintain it.

When women are dominant, that still recognises that the power imbalance is there and the thrill might be transgressing the power imbalance. But this still accepts that power imbalances are legitimate. They're not. No person should be assaulted, degraded or dominated and no person should assault, degrade or dominate another. There is enough of the real stuff going on in the world that to play act other people's oppression and suffering for an orgasm is demeaning to the actor and to the real person who endured the suffering.
----

Did you not realise this was about feminism because I didn't use the safe "F" word?

Isn't feminism about an equality across the seexes so that women can be equal to men strong dominant and workers yet also be able to decide to stay at home or enjoy submissive sex and fantasies. Also so men can be equal to women and be vulnerable and emotional without being called weak and being able to have jobs in care or with children without being labelled a paedophile. Women can want to be submissove and be powerful at the same time

you know what, at the beginning of this thread I was a bit meh about bdsm as a concept. Never got the need for being whipped and such like but to each their own and all that.

I found the 50 shades book a shite read and the domination/control side of things I found somewhat disturbing in general context.

But as this thread has progressed and the bdsm'ers have defended the right to have whatever fantacies they see fit, including those of rape child abuse and murder just as long as they're not followed through or as long as they're between consenting adults, the more I think that the entire concept is somewhat disturbed.

Do I think that someone should be ashamed for wanting to be beaten or whipped? no not really. But I do think that people should feel ashamed for thinking that it is entirely ok to fantacise about raping a woman, or abusing a child, or murdering someone, even if that fantacy is never lived out.

It's not ok to fantacise about raping someone, or about child abuse, or about acts which seriously harm someone else. It doesn't matter whether the act is just in your head and never lived out. Anyone who fantacises about child abuse or rape is a sick bastard. no we can't lock them up for having thoughts but yes I think that it is bloody well something to be ashamed of.

so FLORA you are after an equilibrium society?

There is a misguided belief that feminism wants all women to be a certain way and that anything which differs harms the cause

This could have been an interesting thread, and it's certainly had it's moments

But betty and pineapple in particular are just arguing round and round...

It's a shame....the point of the thread is that the film is not based on a consenting BDSM relationship, it's an abusive one

And most people on here don't give a shiny shit what people get up to in their bedrooms, the ins and outs as it were