...to ask MN-ers NOT to join in this glorification of domestic abuse? (contains spoilers)

[Floundering]

Fifty Shades of Shite

Can't believe the naivety and abuse deniers on here and amongst my friends.

DV campaigners such as Womens Aid & National Centre for Domestic Violence are urging people not to see this film.

It is not "just a piece of fun" it normalises abusive, controlling relationships as sexy, and it really bothers me so many women are colluding in supporting such crap that could hurt other more vulnerable women.

The BDSM community are frothing too as if done properly between 2 consenting adults with lots of planning, mutual respect and lots of affection and downtime after it can, for some, apparently be mindblowing. ( doesn't lift my skirt but respect those who do enjoy) this is not portrayed safely in this film.

So flora, no one at any point brought up child abuse, murder or incest on this thread 'about' bdsm then? Comparing the 'urges' of one with those of another?

It may not have been those exact words (i was paraphrasing a tad ), but it was certainly implied.

And that is why people got defensive.

Think if you need a safe word you are probably playing with the wrong partner.

I think what was meant here is that if the only thing thats going to stop your partner is you saying "pyjamas", then maybe you and your partner are not as in tune with each other as you think you are.

DH knows me well enough and knows all the little signs that tell him to back off a bit, or turn it up a bit. He would also be able to tell if I was completely distressed and so far gone that I couldn't even get a safeword out of me if I tried. Thats how intense it can get. A decent partner will be looking, and listening to everything- not just waiting for you to say "pyjamas".

At least thats how I read it.

I'm not a bdsm-er by the way, i can just see why it went a bit loopy and off topic :)

House sorry I should have been more clear, I'm talking much further back than roman times!

Although I'm sure in roman times they were quite open about harbouring desires for children, another thing mentioned.

So flora, no one at any point brought up child abuse, murder or incest on this thread 'about' bdsm then? Comparing the 'urges' of one with those of another?

Yes to the first, and no to the second.

Those things were raised for two reasons. Firstly, the floggers and floggees were saying "but people used to say homosexuality was wrong" as if that somehow means everything sexual that used to be frowned on should not be considered A-OK. If you're going to appropriate homosexuality, you have to acknowledge that other things used to be frowned upon and still are. That point was about what people actually do, not what they think.

Secondly, the floggers and floggees were saying everything is alright so long as it is a fantasy (different point from the above). Others said, "do you really think it is okay to fantasise about anything at all, even child abuse?" That's testing the argument about whether it is okay to fantasis about anything at all.

In another part of the thread, someone said we have a free press so anyone can write a book about anything. I asked whether that applies to libellous books or books disclosing security details for UK barracks. I don't see anyone getting worked up and saying it's awful I compared BDSM to libel or a breach of national security.

If you're going to talk about something in a public forum, you've taken it outside the realms of your private thoughts. You can expect other people to analyse the basis for your views and disagree with you on whether they are positive or a good thing. Some people are getting very hung on the word "wrong", like we're not allowed to say if we think something is wrong. It's wrong to murder people, hold your knife in your right hand and spell labour as labor. Using the word "wrong" doesn't mean you are equating holding your knife in your right hand with being a murderer.

Flora I usually just wonder if I'm capable of doing it

they may mistake real distress/pain/non-consent for the fake variety. In the heat of the moment during sex, this isn't a far fetched possibility

I agree entirely, on the flip side though there are situations where in the heat of the moment, you'd forget to safeword. I think thats why safewords do have a role to play, but partners should be looking at the whole picture and not thinking to hell with it, we've got a safeword anything goes.

Shit, meant fork in right hand. Don't even start on HKLP, I thought that might be too controversial!

Those things were raised for two reasons. Firstly, the floggers and floggees were saying "but people used to say homosexuality was wrong" as if that somehow means everything sexual that used to be frowned on should not be considered A-OK. If you're going to appropriate homosexuality, you have to acknowledge that other things used to be frowned upon and still are. That point was about what people actually do, not what they think.

Firstly, floggers and floggees? Secondly, yes this was me.

When I said people used to say whatever was said about homesexuals, I wasn't inferring that everything sexual that used to be frowned upon is now OK.

I was saying that people said the same thing about homesexuals before the world woke up to the fact that you might not like it, but two consenting adults should be able to pleasure each other in any way they choose to. Thats different.

And actions which don't involve two (or more) consenting adults pleasuring each other in anyway they choose to are frowned upon, and quite rightly so.

What does the bible have to do with it? Do not covert your neighbours wife does not mean you couldn't take any unmarried woman you wanted as long as you compensated her father. All societies have practiced rape and child abuse at some point in ito history and it was normal to mm any ancient people

What people used to think about homosexuals is irrelevant to what people used to think or still do think about BDSM or any variant of it.

And some actions that do involve consenting adults can also be frowned upon.

You can frown all you like but you can't tell people their thoughts are wrong or that bdsm is wrong

Actually I can say that if I want to. Freedom of speech and all that.

Didn't mean to add the kisses thought I was texting sorry

I haven't read the full thread, but have to say that imo the increasing prevalence of porn has led to the mainstreaming of bdsm.

My sex life wasn't boring 30 years ago, but I simply don't believe that bdsm was simply common but unspoken about.

You're apologising for the kisses but not the PA? We have very different value systems.