...to ask MN-ers NOT to join in this glorification of domestic abuse? (contains spoilers)

[Floundering]

Fifty Shades of Shite

Can't believe the naivety and abuse deniers on here and amongst my friends.

DV campaigners such as Womens Aid & National Centre for Domestic Violence are urging people not to see this film.

It is not "just a piece of fun" it normalises abusive, controlling relationships as sexy, and it really bothers me so many women are colluding in supporting such crap that could hurt other more vulnerable women.

The BDSM community are frothing too as if done properly between 2 consenting adults with lots of planning, mutual respect and lots of affection and downtime after it can, for some, apparently be mindblowing. ( doesn't lift my skirt but respect those who do enjoy) this is not portrayed safely in this film.

If people are engaging in those sorts of practices and are consenting in doing so then yes, those should be kept private. something to be ashamed of? possibly not but imo certainly not something which people should be proud to discuss publicly.

I remember when people used to say this about gays, lesbians, transgendered etc.

How nice to live in a society thats moved on a bit since then eh?

Hamiltoes what I thought exactly.

I'll just be quiet and keep my shameful practices to myself.

Which I usually do by the way, I'm not often to be found discussing the finer points of nylon rope with the local shop boy

But there were a lot of assumptions on this thread confusing bdsm with rape, or that it is something very wrong that just a small perverse section of society should be ashamed of and takes advantage of vulnerable women.

being gay or lesbian is not remotely similar to being in a relationship where you fantacise about being raped or live out incestual fantacies or normalise saying no while being forcefully penetrated. I hope society never normalises the idea that saying no can actually mean yes.

If that makes me intolerant then so be it.

Who mentioned incest?

Beyond there is no rape in any of the books though.

There are rape scenes in Barbara Cartland! And my gran loved those books.

Look I think we are in huge danger of over inflating the influence of this book or film.

All the teenagers I know like my own dds see it as muddie aged porn and deeply cringy.

I dought those girls in Rotherham had read the book and become passive and coerced.

Our energy should be directed at empowering our dds, educating our dss and setting them a good example of relationship equality with our partners.

On that note we have Harriet Harman thinking it's ok to attract adult female voters with a pink bus!

Ffs.

This is just a light novel.

If you don't want to read it don't. Don't go see the film.

But don't assume other adults are incapable of assimilating this and treating it for what it is. Just fantasy fluff.

I don't normally publicly discuss the details of my sexual life but when I asked I am not ashamed to discuss it and I am proud of having a happy and fulfilling life both in and out of the bedroom. I am also not ashamed to discuss it openly with those who would seek to try and shame others a who practice things they don't agree with like bdsm what we think in our heads or do with another consensual adult is nothing to be ashamed of and I will always challenge those who try to make others feel ashamed.

wannabe agree with you but there is a whole load of difference between what consenting adults do together which is fine and what is acceptable without consent.

The book 'Garden of desire' collected thousands of women's fantasies world wide and the top fantasy involved rape/holding down.

This in no way means these women want to be raped in RL.

Fantasy is fantasy reality is reality.

As you say these must not be confused.

Well said Betty. That's what I call a conclusion to this thread.

Hamiltoes

I remember when people used to say this about gays, lesbians, transgendered etc.

How nice to live in a society thats moved on a bit since then eh?

That's a meaningless argument. We used to say this about lots of things we still say it about including incest and pissing and shitting on people. What next? A film about the romance of someone not wanting to be shat on whose partner shits on them?

And for those who think they are being oh so edgy and progressive with their BDSM games, male domination of women and sexual coercion of women as (almost) literally the oldest form of mainstream sexual practice. The Victorians wholeheartedly endorsed it. Women not being expected to enjoy sex, saying "no" even when they wanted it, men coercing or forcing women, women having no agency is the most conservative sexual practice there is.

pineapple what you do in the bedroom or any room with a consenting partner is up to you.

Clearky it's exactly the same with homosexual/lesbian/rape fantasy/bdsm and good old missionary while you think of your shopping list.

All is fine if those taking part are consenting adults.

Wow flora you make it sound like people who do bdsm do so to seem edgy cool and as if it's new not cause they actually enjoy it

FLORA - You seem to think that men force women to do it! Women have minds and choose to be part of it. Your just a man hater who things men are evil and women can't think for themselves.
Your the ttoe of person that make the world believe women are stupid!

Flora incest is illegal as it generally involves coercion although I am sure there are plenty of brother/sister adult relationships out there and really what would be the point in pursuing them.

What do you mean by edgy?? People are simply discussing their fantasies here and what they do in the bedroom.

Is there a right/wrong fantasy then?

Of course not. Each to their own in the bedroom.

To be honest there's not much difference here between Mr Darcey and Christian grey apart from the described sex.

Nowt new under the sun.

Can I just say, it's spawned rather than sporned

ahem

WannaBe

Def1. lack of tolerance; unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect opinions or beliefs contrary to one's own.

Yep, I'd say that attitude makes you pretty intolerant.

You wouldn't agree that two sexual preferences, which someone has no power to change even if they wanted to, which are usually known about from early childhood, which are not what the vast majority of the population identifies as, aren't remotely similar?

Please explain your reasoning.

(And by no means am I trying to link the struggles of those in the LBGT community to those with fetishes, people with fetishes don't face discrimination as they do, however to say there are no similarities is inaccurate.)

I feel like being edgy now tonight with dh! Might be a glass of red in bed rather than cocoa.

Again why is it even being mentioned in the same sentence as incest?

I'm just waiting for bdsm to be compared to the perversity of pedophillia, the way some posters are overreacting on this thread to consensual, non abusive sexual preferences I really wouldn't be surprised.

Thanks TheOne

I like that betty I think I will be edgy too and stay up till 11 ha

Flora in reply to your 10.27 post directed at me I'm not sure why because I agree with your post, I detest the book and don't think a film with someone shitting on someone who doesn't consent should be next

However, I'll defend anyone who enjoys shitting on someone who wants to be shat on! Anything other is intolerance as far as I'm concerned.

And I agree, it is arguably the oldest form of sexual practice there is, no doubt a left over "caveman" instinct that manifests itself in some more strongly than others. Nothing new or edgy or cool about it, just fun for consenting adults.

pineapple you yourself on this thread have said I am prudish and out of date because of my views on BDSM. References back to Victorian values have come from you and other BDSM'ers. This is very common. I didn't say people do it for that reason but they very often counter any criticism of BDSM by referring to prudes, moralism, progression, referencing changing attitudes to lesbian and gay sex when in fact BDSM is the opposite of progression. It's the continuation of domination and oppression.

Incest is not illegal because it generally involves coercion. Brother/sister relationships would be pursued if they were known about. Would you be okay with a mainstream film about the romance of an incestuous relationship? There is a fairly well documented phenomenon of estranged family members having mutual sexual attraction if they meet as adults. Are you okay with having books and films romanticising that in the public sphere? With lots of people going onto discussion boards to say how wonderful incest is?

Did I really read child abuse and incest being compared to bdsm activity between two consenting adults they are hardly the same thing. A lot of outraged bosom clutching posts about it without actually understanding what bdsm is in practice.

The books are utter crap. I am pleased it's opened dialogue about abusive relationships. But the sex scenes were cringey and dull. You'd have to have lived a really sheltered life to find anything shocking/titillating in the depicting of the acts themselves.

Sex between two adults who agree on what is going to happen beforehand is a non issue, regardless of how many whips and chains and gimp suits or whatever are involved. Plenty of people get into bdsm and they aren't abused/abusers/have been abused/would be rapists etc, they are just average people who like it. It's just role play. Focus instead on what is important and what is disturbing in the books - a man grooming and then abusing a vulnerable woman - and why that messaging is so seemingly popular.

(ps all Bronte sister books were dreadful, not just Jane Eyre!)

sliced it is being mentioned with incest because BDSM'ers try to co-opt valuable forms of sexuality, particularly homosexuality, to suggest that BDSM should viewed in the same way - something previously seen as unacceptable but now should be unacceptable. If you don't want your sexual practice to be compared with other sexual practices you don't like, don't appropriate homosexuality.

Did I really read child abuse and incest being compared to bdsm

No you didn't. Try harder.

Sliced agree and am amazed at the entrenched judgyness on here as well as the inability to separate fantasy from reality.

Some acts between consenting adults are deemed ok while others not.

Tis strange.