...to ask MN-ers NOT to join in this glorification of domestic abuse? (contains spoilers)

[Floundering]

Fifty Shades of Shite

Can't believe the naivety and abuse deniers on here and amongst my friends.

DV campaigners such as Womens Aid & National Centre for Domestic Violence are urging people not to see this film.

It is not "just a piece of fun" it normalises abusive, controlling relationships as sexy, and it really bothers me so many women are colluding in supporting such crap that could hurt other more vulnerable women.

The BDSM community are frothing too as if done properly between 2 consenting adults with lots of planning, mutual respect and lots of affection and downtime after it can, for some, apparently be mindblowing. ( doesn't lift my skirt but respect those who do enjoy) this is not portrayed safely in this film.

I havent read any of the thread. I just read the op'S ORIGNAL opening statement

I agree wholeheartedly with boycotting it. Would you really want your dd treated like that?

It may be fiction... but its a bit close to the wire for me.

I've read fifty shades, I don't remember a rape scene, remind me where it is.

Flora no - you don't have to provide evidence, but if you are resigned to the fact that women's fantasies can't be altered and don't want to police them, then what does "raising awareness" do apart from shame women? I don't see why telling women that their sexual desires are wrong is any better than the mainstream patriarchal narrative that you presumably oppose, which tells women that only men's desires are valid.

To be honest, I haven't 50sog, but I suspect I might quite enjoy it. I have rape fantasies. I also have a successful career, a great family and a happy marriage. I'm well aware that rape and abuse are wrong and thankfully have never been the victim of either. I'm perfectly aware that fantasising about rape is probably a symptom of age-old patriarchal repression. So what? Do you want me to apologise? Feel ashamed? Go to therapy and try to have my sexuality corrected? Not expect to see my (very common) desires reflected in mainstream media because you don't like them? Do you really think that all women who like this book are idiots who have just not had their "awareness raised" to the fact that abuse is wrong? Given the huge dominance of Hollywood and the media by men and a male-centred view of women, do you really think a book written by a woman, for women, depicting a very common female fantasy (or a movie of said book, directed by a woman) is the best way. Or maybe we should go back to having women on film be Bond girls - sex objects, ornaments on screen and incidental to the plot, with no sense that they have any offensive sexual desires (because they are not depicted as desiring at all).

Sorry, I know you mean well, but I think that your attitude harms women rather than helps them. You know who is responsible for abuse? Abusers. Leave women's fantasies out of it.

What appalling message does Jane Eyre send out to young women?
Cracking book. I'd say a feminist one to boot.

Is that the book were he locks his first wife up in the attic?

house-

Anyone approaches my daughter with any thing resembling whip in his hand I'll kick his crotch so hard he'll be able to give himself a blowjob

erk I did not proof read that. Should read *best way to attack sexist attitudes. (or something)

Ha, thanks house

Yes, I think the question 'would you want Christian Grey to be your DDs boyfriend?' Sums it up really.

It doesn't mean that they actually want these things, it just means it turns them on to think about it. That's what fantasy is.

But I know a lot of women who do now actually want these things. They have treated it like a "how to do BDSM for beginners" when its NOT. As PP said, its fantasy marketed as true love which is wrong.

If its fantasy marketed as abuse then I have no problem with it!!

Twilight, although a good example house at least uses vampires to make it a bit more escapist and not so much of a "how to" as mentioned above. I'll encourage my DD to read it, so I can use it as an example of something thats ok to fantasise about, but something which should never be sought after IRL.

And it's just as well that zazzle- doesn't get to define DV

The other creepy thing is that Ana is a virgin and Christian totally exploits that. She is obviously incredibly naive and can't possibly know what she wants sexually, given she has no experience, and he pounces on this in order to use her for his own means. This isnt a woman who is confident with her sexuality and just wants to give BDSM 'a bit of a whirl' as part of her repetoire. It's so predatory.

Flimmy +1 who will admit on here to sharing your fantasies... DH and I fulfil these in a safe yet pretty "realistic" way regularly.

And I don't think there is anything wrong with having them, I don't think I could change it anymore than a gay person could be straight.

BUT... i'll never like or accept 50 shades for the reasons I and a few PPs such as house and christy have said above.

Jane doesn't marry Rochester until she is at least his equal - when she has money and full health, and he is crippled, blind and frightened. She marries him when she has power over him.

Fantastic book. C19 Girl Power.

I love that line

"Reader I married him"

I will admit to sharing flimmys fantasies and I am not ashamed

"have you read all three? Seen how the relationship develops? Seen how his control lessens? And how to encourages open communication and trust?"

Let's look at some highlights from the very last chapter of book 3, shall we?

Ana apologises to Christian for being angry (when he slammed things around and screamed at her when she told him she was pregnant, then stormed off and spent the night drinking with the woman who had tried repeatedly to sabotage their relationship). He magnanimously forgives her because he "understands angry".

Christian will barely let Ana out of the house although she is "briefly" allowed to see her recently severely injured father. She smiles fondly at what a "control freak" he is.

Christian won't "let" Ana go back to work.

Ana tells the reader that she is scared of Christian.

Wow, you're right, he really is a keeper...

Pineapple and will you also admit that Christian is an abuser and a rapist and the fact its marketed neither as rape fantasy nor abuse fantasy but actually a romance about "the ideal man" is wrong, and will lead women, especially less experienced, down a slippery slope that perpetrates actual rape and abuse as romantic?

For it to be BDSM it has to be consensual. And its clearly not.

Jane shouldn't have married him at all! It isn't a woman's job to run back and care for an abusive man just because he needs someone to. She should have let him rot. Preferably in an attic.

Thanks Hamiltoes! As I say, I have not read the book, but I can see that if it is a depiction of an essentially abusive relationship that would be jarring and upsetting for some. But I disagree that this makes the film irresponsible. I think that this abuse is actually what many women fantasise about. And that there's nothing wrong with that. And that women are smart enough to know the difference between fantasy and reality. And that any book/film that caters to female fantasy and therefore treats women as a sexual subject is not responsible for the rape and abuse that is sadly endemic in that culture - because that rape and abuse arises from a failure to recognise women as fully autonomous, ie treating them as sexual objects, without desires of their own (or whose desires are not to be valued). Yes, let's fight DV and rape - but let's not pretend that it's women's fantasies that are responsible for them.

dione

I love the line....didn't say anything about the plot (although I studied it at o level and have probably blocked most of it out )

Following 50 Shades some of the most popular fetish sites put up lists of Red Flags that are indicative of abusive, not BDSM, relationships. Many users found them very useful, especially subs who were new to BDSM and those who don't take part in the Scene and talk to other Doms/Subs.