...to ask MN-ers NOT to join in this glorification of domestic abuse? (contains spoilers)

[Floundering]

Fifty Shades of Shite

Can't believe the naivety and abuse deniers on here and amongst my friends.

DV campaigners such as Womens Aid & National Centre for Domestic Violence are urging people not to see this film.

It is not "just a piece of fun" it normalises abusive, controlling relationships as sexy, and it really bothers me so many women are colluding in supporting such crap that could hurt other more vulnerable women.

The BDSM community are frothing too as if done properly between 2 consenting adults with lots of planning, mutual respect and lots of affection and downtime after it can, for some, apparently be mindblowing. ( doesn't lift my skirt but respect those who do enjoy) this is not portrayed safely in this film.

i think anyone arguing that young impressionable girls won't subconsciously be sucked into thinking relationships like this are normal are a bit misguided. when something becomes a fad like this has then suddenly you get people jumping on the bandwagon. the fact this book made such money and has been made into a film even though it is total and utter rubbish and written so badly is testament to the fact that people love jumping on bandwagons.

i do fear that girls will start to think this bad portrayal of a bdsm lifestyle which is basically a cover for an abusive relationship is ok.

If the book is so damaging why not age rate it so only 18 can buy it like the film will be.

A couple of things:

1. Isn't the point about DV that it's insidious and subtle? Literally, isn't this the opposite of every message we've heard about DV? If your abuser acted like Christian Grey, wouldn't everyone walk away? This campaign seems to suggest that DV victims are none too bright...

1. Flora Your points contradict each other. You agree that the Mills and Boons fantasy of being "taken" is about women not being overtly "sexual" but then you also state that women will take this as a cue... to be more sexual? Huh? The whole point (as you stated) of this kind of erotic fantasy is that it allows women to not be "sluts" because they are being "taken" rather than initiating. It also reinforces the general societal idea that women's greatest value is their value to men so when a man finds you irresistible, (and fascinating! and perfect!), then that's heaven. But this is directly at odds with the notion of teenagers engaging in BDSM. In fact, the real message of 5SOG is that _you are supposed to win him over with your innocence_. That message is nothing new. 5SOG is quaint compared to most modern messages about female sexuality. It is the very definition of old school. Like I said, they might as well put him in a cowboy hat. You know, the one who looks like a ranch hand but it turns out he owns the whole ranch operation. And he's rude because you're a "city girl" and roughly kisses you against your will a couple of times but then saves your life after your jeep runs out of gas in the desert and you fall in love. This has so little to do with young girls having sex that it's sort of embarrassing.

There are many reasons that young girls engage in this behavior (most of which mumsnet refuse to acknowledge) but to blame a book that came out a few years ago is ridiculous.

If the DV charities wanted to actually make some change, they would actually have a conversation about this. But instead, like a bunch of prudes, it's all "won't someone think of the kids!" nonsense.

I am choosing not to see the film as I do not like the message it is giving

I read the first book there are elements of an abuse relationship from the start I find it hard to believe people can not see this and really the message that love conquers all is one that we have been feed time and time again, to stand by your man, behind every strong man is a strong woman, with the love of a good woman a bad man will turn into a good man basically all women need to do is love and nurture men

I have heard so much about these books and the film lately. I haven't read the books but now I am thinking I should, and I should go and watch the film too so I can see what I think.

I shall be watching

If you get through even one of those books you deserve a medal.

Tbh, it's the stalker-ish tendencies and lack of wanting Ana to have control of everything in her life that's more abusive than the sex - restricting what she can discuss with who, who she sees, where she goes, what she wears, drives etc.

Having said that, I do think people tend to get there knickers in a knot about it. Christian Grey is a fictional character, he only gets away with it because he's mega-rich. I agree that he's abusive towards Ana outside of the bedroom and the relationship shouldn't be put forward as something to aspire to IRL - but I suspect most relationships portrayed in the media fall under that umbrella.

I think things like this very much should be in the public domain, as it promotes discussion - as I said up thread, I had a good discussion with DN about how, in real life, Christian Grey would probably be slapped with a restraining order.

And the characters are dull as fuck. You would not go to the pub with either of them.

you could read the book in a day

agree with others very badly written, about as erotic as watching paint dry and was extremely annoying skipped the endless sex bits

And tbh, I think 50SoG is pretty tame in terms of what most teens/young adults have access to.

I would probably prefer this.

That's a pretty awful thing to say uggbot

What a weird comment.

I didn't think the writing was the best and at times it was quite clichéd but I didn't read the books and think domestic abuse or otherwise. Watch it if you want, don't watch it if it's not your thing but I don't think a boycott is going to be successful as this book offered something different and are interested in it

I don't believe he raped anyone did he?....

No amount of money could bribe me to go and see this film - I'd be more embarrassed/cringeing than I was sat amongst the braying hysteria at Sex & the City.

I did attempt the read the book and aside from the bloody awfulness of the plot and complete non sexiness of it, it was so offensively badly written that I threw it out after about a third.

Some of my FB acquaintances will no doubt, be squawking with excitement about going to see it, but they are the type that will read only crappy chick-lit.

That is horrible ugg and clearly misinformed maybe through lack of properly reading the thread

It was a weird connect, but I guess to some extent trueish?

Fifty Shades is fantasy/escapism. There is a world of difference between fantasising about being forcefully taken by Christian Grey against your will, and actually being raped in RL.

The books may be crap, but they are crap fiction. They may portray and unequal and unhealthy relationship, but so does practically any crap romance you are likely to come across. Look at Cathy and Heathcliffe or Rochester who kept his wife locked in the attic whilst trying to shag the nanny. Or the numerous Mills and Boon novels where a comely peasant girl is tumbled in the hay by a local noble. Or the story of O...

I don't think I've ever read a thread praising the series.

Clearly you weren't on the MN own post movie release thread then!

So so so many things wrong with some of the arguments.

Its NOT BDSM. BDSM is something else entirely. Its abuse. Pure and simple. AND for the ill informed, BDSM can occur inside and outside the bedroom, so its not even a "but its abuse because he was controlling outside the bedroom". Its abuse because, well he is an abuser. He tries to take control before Ana has agreed and before they are in a consensual relationship. HUGE red flag.

He is a stalker. Just in the area were you christan? Sending "gifts" to her home address.

He is possessive, before she agrees to anything. Thats not roleplay which BDSM endorses. Thats real life abuse.

He takes her home when she is quite clearly drunk. Given the whole Ched Evans scandal, need I say any more?

He's controlling. And threatening. Again, before they are in a relationship. Ana decides to go out with her friends. "If you were mine, you wouldn't be able to sit down for a week after the stunt you pulled yesterday."

He starts to isolate her from family and friends. Not a great way to start a healthy, loving relationship is it?

He manipulates her into something which she clearly has no concept of. Shes a virgin. And he gives her a contract?? Its all about him and his sexual desires. A BDSM relationship works because a dom and sub both get something out of the relationship. What is Ana getting?

And when things do get sexual, well they just get a whole lot worse. How many women do you think have been scarred for life by having their virginity "fucked hard" out of them, until they are "sore". No regard for her emotional wellbeing.

And she does say no, a lot, and he does it anyway.

I'm going to stop their because the bulk of the pps argument is that its fine because they are in a relationship. Apparently it doesn't matter how this relationship comes about because love conquers all. Nope, thats why women stay with abusers.

I'm looking at you BeeRayKay

I'm going to stop their because the bulk of the pps argument is that its fine because they are in a relationship.

No its fine because it is a book. A work of fiction

Am I the only one slightly amused by the 'contains spoilers' warning in the title?

Fifty Shades is fantasy/escapism. There is a world of difference between fantasising about being forcefully taken by Christian Grey against your will, and actually being raped in RL.

Yep, and rape fantasies are fine in the context of BDSM and consenting adults. A whole genre of books exist (bodice rippers) where the heroine is raped, sometimes repeatedly by the hero, and heroine ends up enjoying it. But they were usually set in the 18th century where this sort of thing actually happened, and they weren't made into films plastered on the side of buses for all to see. They were kept purely in the realm of fantasy.

Everyone is entitled to fantasise about whatever they want. Its when you have millions of women and teens actually wanting a REAL LIFE Mr Grey, who isn't a BDSM dom, hes an abuser. Thats not fantasy. Thats wrong.

But who said millions is women wants that? Millions of women have read the books, and millions more will watch the films - that doesn't make it any less fantasy/escapism - reading does not equate to wanting in RL.