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Original poster

...to ask MN-ers NOT to join in this glorification of domestic abuse? (contains spoilers)

999 replies

Floundering · 10/02/2015 09:13

Fifty Shades of Shite

Can't believe the naivety and abuse deniers on here and amongst my friends.

DV campaigners such as Womens Aid & National Centre for Domestic Violence are urging people not to see this film.

It is not "just a piece of fun" it normalises abusive, controlling relationships as sexy, and it really bothers me so many women are colluding in supporting such crap that could hurt other more vulnerable women.

The BDSM community are frothing too as if done properly between 2 consenting adults with lots of planning, mutual respect and lots of affection and downtime after it can, for some, apparently be mindblowing. ( doesn't lift my skirt but respect those who do enjoy) this is not portrayed safely in this film.

...to ask MN-ers NOT to join in this glorification of domestic abuse? (contains spoilers)
OP posts:
FloraFox · 10/02/2015 17:47

Where did I say I want to remove anyone who didn't agree with me? Don't be ridiculous. Just because I'm not waving my pom-poms on your sidelines doesn't mean I want to remove you from anything. It's easier though to simply reject what I've said as being domination and tyranny (the irony).

Slash is weird. It's not my cup o tea so I won't be searching it out but I've read recently that the relationships in slash are more like lesbian relationships than gay men's relationships. Interesting.

pineappleshortbread · 10/02/2015 17:49

You were saying it wouldn't exist in a truly equal and domination free world and you wouldn't want it but I disagree as everyone is unique so there will always be someone who thinks differently

RufusTheReindeer · 10/02/2015 18:10

I absolutely support flora in giving her opinion. she has not been rude or put anyone down. Her posts have been entirely in keeping with the tone of the OP

pineapple I don't see how Flora has been mean to you at all, she doesn't agree with your sexual practices but she has been nothing but polite to you.

pineappleshortbread · 10/02/2015 18:15

I haven't been mean to her but she has azure made me feel ashamed of my practices and that's it is wrong. I respect her opinion but I don't think the world needs to be rid of bdsm just educated. We need to talk about sex more and be open that would make things better

PuffinsAreFictitious · 10/02/2015 18:21

Just RTFT, but:

To the person who, on page two posted this:

And if they (women's aid) are urging people not to watch the film, then why can't we have some respect for their expert opinion? If Cancer Research turned round and said, "Don't eat oranges, they cause cancer in 10% of people", we'd probably avoid them and certainly not let our kids have them.

It's for the same reasons as people know that, if they smoke, they will almost certainly have adverse health effects, including dying painfully from cancer. People don't want to know that things will harm them. No matter how much of an expert tells them. A lot of the posts here are a case in point.

MrsHathaway · 10/02/2015 19:00

As I read it, pineapple said "BDSM turns me on" and Flora said "no it doesn't". I can see merit in both their arguments, so this isn't a matter of sides. One is arguing from the personal; the other from the theoretical.

Flora - I haven't seen you acknowledge that some subs genuinely enjoy submission and/or pain. It might be outside your experience but it is well attested.

I agree that a man who wants to hurt you is a scary thing, and one would have to be afraid of a RL Grey who wants to control and hurt and punish. I can't get my head round doms-who-aren't-controlling at all.

But that doesn't mean I think they don't really exist, just that I could never be one, I suppose.

Bettybodybooboo · 10/02/2015 19:06

If a homosexual bloke was writing about sex acts in every form and the book was sucessful it would be lauded as courageous and probably won the booker prize.

A middle aged woman has written 3 spectacularly successful light novels about kinky sex and it's castigated and vilified as dangerous to young girls

( hilarious as no self respecting teen would be seen dead reading middle age porn like this)

It's a complete double standards.

The books are pretty daft and unlike some here I have read all 3.

There is no rape in the books, all acts are consensual if daft.

Reading these will no more make vulnerable women or men stay or instigate unhealthy relationships or stay in controlling ones any more than watching breaking bad won't turn you into a meth dealer.

Unclutch those pearls.

pineappleshortbread · 10/02/2015 19:07

That is a well rounded view mrshathaway. I can tell you my husband is the domain and isn't really controlling. He wouldn't do find didn't like it so I suppose he isn't your typical dom Smile

FloraFox · 10/02/2015 19:08

No I didn't say BDSM doesn't turn anyone on, that would be ridiculous.

I've said is that our sexual fantasies and responses are not created in a vacuum. I haven't said anyone's sexual fantasies or responses don't exist.

pineappleshortbread · 10/02/2015 19:08

Thank you betty and I completely agree

pineappleshortbread · 10/02/2015 19:11

I grew up with my gp in a sex vacuum as it were and it wasn't discussed as they are Christian and believe in no sex before marriage. I didn't watch or read or.experience any bdsm or controlling before 50 shades yet I knew I wanted it and fantasised about it years before. I can't explain why but sometimes it isn't media influences at all

Bettybodybooboo · 10/02/2015 19:12

On a serious note to describe the scenes in the book as domestic abuse is a stupid stupid comparison as it has absolutely nothing to do with domestic abuse.

LurcioAgain · 10/02/2015 19:15

Pineapple - I'd suggest you start a thread in relationships maybe asking for advice from people involved in the BDSM scene. It sounds like (fortunately because you already have a healthy relationship) you and your husband are having good BDSM - he is a "proper" dom (from what I understand) because he respects your limits and you both play safely. But it sounds like you've arrived at this state largely by accident, and I would say despite 50 shades, not because of it. I think it would really help you to talk to people about limits and safe words and so on (none of which are touched on in 50 shades, which is why people in the BDSM community mostly dislike the book).

FloraFox · 10/02/2015 19:17

pineapple that's not a vacuum. That's an atmosphere of sexual repression. Where a woman experiences shame at the thought of having sex with people she fancies, it's fairly common to fantasise about a man taking responsibility for the choices. She gets to stay the good girl but gets the sex. No idea if that's you, but is is a common response. They're sometimes called rape fantasies but that's not accurate because the fantasy involves someone you* want to have sex with who desperately desires you and does things that you enjoy. So the opposite of real rape.

Not you personally, you in the general sense.

pineappleshortbread · 10/02/2015 19:19

Thank you for the advice lucid. I guess it was kind of an accident although discussed slightly. We know our limits and do h a very a safe word. The safe word is discussed in 50 shades a a hers is red if I remember correctly. I understand it doesn't represent bdsm as a whole but maybe aspects of it.

pineappleshortbread · 10/02/2015 19:22

I understand that process and yes I think it applies to some flora I did have my mother to talk sex with (complicated back story with regards to living arrangements) so not completely repressed and I have always known how to assert myself in the bedroom and decide what I want. I do agree though that that is the case for some

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 10/02/2015 19:23

There are limits in the books (hard and soft) and safe words. No idea if they are proper in terms of "real" BDSM but they are there, and quite a large feature.

LovesBooks · 10/02/2015 19:23

Yes because of course all women who read the book are idiots and will immediately believe that dv relationships are ok. Oh wait perhaps they are not 5 years old and can tell the difference between fiction and non-fiction Hmm Your op came across as really pationising to me and women are more than just passive readers. They can make up their own minds

Ubik1 · 10/02/2015 19:26

I think it's a shite book and a shite film.
It will be forgotten about in a few years.
And I agree with a previous poster - it's a big screen Mills and Boon targeted at middle aged women.
Honestly there are more important things

Original poster
Floundering · 10/02/2015 19:32

It hasn't been called 'DV' for years op..... It's domestic abuse, at least get it right if you want to cause such a pearl clutching fuss!

Ahem can I draw your attention to the picture in the OP

Domestic Violence helpline.

My pearls are firmly unclutched, worry not. Grin

Bettybody domestic abuse/violence often has elements of sexual control and abuse within it, not in all cases certainly. But Mr Gray is controlling in all areas of the womans life it appears & the things that are being objected to are these elements.

As I said previously we seem to have some strong outspoken women on here but what about those who are not so strong, that are controlled and belittled by their own Mr Gray who may not be able to see that it isn't normal.

The link from a PP about young women & anal sex makes chilling reading.

OP posts:
flimmyflam · 10/02/2015 19:34

I do understand why you find domination distasteful, Flora, (though personally I find it quite sexy) but it's not quite clear what you want to happen.

(1) Is there any evidence for a link between seeing images or reading stories about BDSM, rape or violence and real life rape and violence?
(2) Is there any evidence that women who practice BDSM or fantasise about rape are unhappier/less fulfilled than women who don't?
(3) Is there any evidence that it is even possible to stop women fantasising about BDSM or rape?

Unless you can show that the answer to all these questions is yes, I don't see how opposing 50sog is going to help address gender inequality.

(nb I know BDSM and rape fantasies are different things)

Bettybodybooboo · 10/02/2015 19:34

There are limits in the books and safe words.

I honestly think a hell of a lot of posters havnt actually read the books but have listened to the hype.

It's a soft porn novel people!!

Good on her for making millions.

Off now to start a Meth lab because I watched breaking bad.

For goodness sake.

Sallystyle · 10/02/2015 19:35

But it isn't just adults reading it is it?

It is young teens who are very impressionable. Teens who want to jump on the latest craze and will get their hands on it so they aren't missing out on the latest thing.

pineappleshortbread · 10/02/2015 19:38

That's why bookstores should have a responsibility to stop teens buying it and why some.books need an age rating

flimmyflam · 10/02/2015 19:39

I completely agree LoveBooks, I think the reaction to 50SoG is sexist and patronising. It's interesting how even on a female dominated (ha) messageboard there are all kinds of comments about how this is 'just' a fantasy for 'middle aged women'. Because we're so used to 'middle aged women' not being represented as having sexual preferences that it seems ridiculous that they do. Honestly, there are so many bad examples in the media but we don't worry about the men who enjoy the association of sex, social status and violence in James Bond films - we worry that women who see their taboo fantasies depicted in the media simply won't understand the line between fantasy and reality. Yawn.