...to ask MN-ers NOT to join in this glorification of domestic abuse? (contains spoilers)

[Floundering]

Fifty Shades of Shite

Can't believe the naivety and abuse deniers on here and amongst my friends.

DV campaigners such as Womens Aid & National Centre for Domestic Violence are urging people not to see this film.

It is not "just a piece of fun" it normalises abusive, controlling relationships as sexy, and it really bothers me so many women are colluding in supporting such crap that could hurt other more vulnerable women.

The BDSM community are frothing too as if done properly between 2 consenting adults with lots of planning, mutual respect and lots of affection and downtime after it can, for some, apparently be mindblowing. ( doesn't lift my skirt but respect those who do enjoy) this is not portrayed safely in this film.

FloraFox Sorry if I implied you wanted to make roleplay illegal, I didn't mean that. It's just that you were the one to point out to me/ us that BDSM in this context and to this extent is illegal, and have thus been supportive of that fact.
I deduced that you support the theory that BDSM is ABH without exception, even if it is between two consenting adults.

AWholeLottaNosey - I remember 9 1/2 weeks too, one difference though was that the female lead left the man at the end, which seemed a much more satisfying ending to me. Pardon my wording.

Hubert whether it is ABH is about the degree of the assault. I do believe that an assault causing ABH should be illegal, even between two consenting adults. Not all BDSM will result in ABH so it won't all be illegal.

I don't want a police enforcement campaign knocking on people's bedroom doors but I also don't want the issue of consent to come up in a DV case so BDSM'ers will need to put up with their consensual assaults causing ABH to be illegal.

None of that affects whether we could or should discuss the context for BDSM, mainstream films or women's position in society.

It belongs in films because it's part of culture no matter how awful people think it is. There are plenty of films which are degrading cruel psychopathic and unnecessary but we should not censor our culture and world if you don't approve don't watch the same goes for all films and tv

pineapple I'm no more pushing my views on other people than you are. You're on a public forum saying being assaulted by your husband in your bedroom is sexy fun. If this thread had just been about 50SOG and whether it was a shite film, I wouldn't have contributed. But you and others have shared your views that being assaulted before being fucked is great so I'm sharing my view that I don't agree.

I'm saying I enjoy it I never said everyone will or that everyone must try it and a hold do it. Each to their own some people will never do it or want to and that's great sex is an individual thing but knowing you are not alone in your views is good. We cannot censor our world because we don't like bits in it. Our world and society is vast and colourful there are good bits and bad bits but we can't hide and remove or the things we don't likebecause that would be lying about our world

We can actually try to change the things we don't like, if we live in a free country. We can influence the sort of society we want to live in and how people should treat each other in society. That's partly done by laws and partly by social influence. I want to change society and particularly I want women to be free from male domination. That starts by talking about it. You may not want things to change or you may think there's a different way of doing it, that's up to you.

"it sets out to glorify abuse, feeds women that old shite about "he'll change if you love him enough" and is totally different from genuine consensual BDSM."

THIS.

WOW- got in from work & have taken half an hour to RTFT!

Apologies if I don't answer individual comments.

No I have not read ALL of the 3 books but read enough of each online to get a an idea of how shite the writing & "plotline" is. Word count on book 3 of 70 "gasps" for starters got my goat, and I was hurling things across the room at the lip biting & "oh my" utterances.

I did NOT say it should be banned but I would urge people not to waste their money on it as the portrayal of BDSM (as I understand it from them who enjoys it) is untrue & potentially dangerous in its practices. The best outcome would be that people stay away in their droves & that it is a turkey then books 2 &3 won't get made but somehow I doubt it sadly.

The fact that DV support groups are flagging it up as a concern is why I am taking this line, so those of you eye rolling at me -fine, each entitled to his or her opinion, but there are enough posters agreeing with me on this thread to make me feel I am right to flag it up.

There are many strong women on here who could take a stand against an abusive partner, but there are enough horrible stories in Relationships and on other sites to know that sexual coercion in abusive relationships is all too common, and too many vulnerable women may feel they have to go along with stuff they are not comfortable with just because their partner gets turned on by thinking he' s a Mr Grey.

Thanks for all the comments though!

I want women to be free from domestic violence but also to feel it's okay to want.to consensual dominate or be dominated. Everyone is different and we needn't see that bdsm is perfectly acceptable and safe and something we can discuss and something which does not need.to be changed

I want women to live in a world where they feel free from domination, and I also want women to live a world where they can explore their sexuality free from persecution or ridicule.
Would BDSM sit better with you if society were free from domination? If you felt confident that it was a fetish born entirely from sexual preferences that had no groundings in patriarchy?

Can I pose a question? I think it's fairly defensible to say that statistically speaking that consensual BDSM is a minority interest (I believe this to be the case - most women I know say that pain and submission don't evoke a sexual response in them, a minority I know do, but do so with clearly defined boundaries and safe words, within relationships where the BDSM bit doesn't spread beyond the bedroom). So why is it that 50 shades specifically, that's captured the imagination with its presentation of pseudo BDSM (from what I've been told I don't think it bears any resemblance to the real thing - and several posters who are into BDSM have said this further upthread, with Pineapples as the dissenting voice on this one)? And why isn't there a massive amount of publicity surrounding more vanilla erotica?

Is there just as much vanilla erotica out there, but it doesn't get publicised because the mainstream press only gets interested in sex if it's "kinky" (their value judgement, not mine)? Or is there generally more stuff that eroticises submission than there is vanilla sex? I know there's an argument which says that sexual power balances are so pervasive in our culture that they permeate all sexual relationships, and that all women end up eroticising submission to some extent, so that the differences are only ones of degree - from Mills and Boon "she swooned into his muscular arms" through to 50SOG's applying a riding crop to her clitoris (having a majorly vanilla moment: in what possible world could anyone find that a turn on?) But I'm not sure I buy that. I've read erotica which seems to me to present equal relationships.

Also, how much of it comes down to bad writing? The author hasn't got the skill to write about overwhelming sexual lust any other way than by putting violence into the picture - she doesn't have the skill to do overwhelming emotions, so takes the lazy (and dangerous) way out of using overwhelming physical force as a bad metaphor for the above (at the same time latching on to the rape myth that "rape's a kind of twisted compliment really - he couldn't help himself" - which is of course a complete crock of shit).

I think there must be vanilla erotica but I think it's the darker side which draws out the debate and peeks people's interest into was hat the minority do. I enjoy vanilla as well it is a turn on and I don't by any means practice bdsm everything we have sex.
I think what I liked about the book was wanting someone to grab me and be that passionate the sex couldn't wait as in real life we know this generally isn't the case especially in a committed relationship and with children.
I think bdsm gets more press because it is the minority and considered outside the normal and of.course the spanking paddling and whipping can cause outrage to some as this thread has shown whereas.to others it is enjoyable and does a nd always need to lead to sex. Sometimes it's not even about sex it's about relinquishing control when you sometimes can't in the rest of your normal life Or being dominant when you have had situations where you generally can't be

Oh, and another thought springs to mind - I was buying sports kit for DS at the weekend, and at the cashdesk the cashier asked did I want a copy of Some random men's health magazine (can't remember the title). On the cover was a strapline saying "Smacked botty - what she's going to be asking for in bed this year..." Needless to say, I declined.

And that's why I hate this film - it's playing into the idea that we should all be doing it, and that women will expect it, and so will men, and no-one will bloody talk to each other about it. Furthermore, popular culture does influence behaviour: Independent article reporting on BMJ study into anal sex among teenagers - the take home message is there's a lot of teen girls being pressured into anal sex they don't want, don't enjoy, and which furthermore their boyfriends know they don't want and don't enjoy. I found it absolutely chilling reading. It's bad enough that there's tons of male-oriented porn out there legitimating this sort of pressure on teenage girls; the last thing I want is stuff written supposedly by women for women adding to that pressure.

It hasn't been called 'DV' for years op..... It's domestic abuse, at least get it right if you want to cause such a pearl clutching fuss!

I don't like those things either being told what the opposite sex will or won't like is awful and makes.people.feel like they're doing it wrong I know I used to. There need.to be more articles about having open discussions with your partner and articles just discussing all different forms of sexual activity so people can be aware and informed. More emphasis needs to be put on teaching young people to not be shy and discuss what they like and don't like with their partner and to be able to say no vonfidently

Excuse the bad grammar punctuation and spelling my.phone is atrocious lol

That would be better and, in the spirit of seeking mutual ground, I would like to say yes but TBH no, it wouldn't sit better with me except that I would be relieved it wasn't perpetuating external dominance structures (assuming the roles were not predominantly men dominating women or vice versa).

I think BDSM would have no context in such a world and I would hope it would not exist. But no, I don't believe anyone on this earth should be degraded, dominated or assaulted. The person doing the degrading, dominating or assaulting is still carrying out that act on another human being. Just because it's wrapped up in sex doesn't give it a special status.

Our society used to be more sexually repressed, particularly around women's sexuality and homosexuality. I'm glad it's less repressed now but there's a danger in saying because it's a good thing that women's sexuality and homosexuality are less repressed now, everything else that used to be taboo should no longer taboo. Some things are actually more taboo now (child abuse) and some things are just as taboo as they used to be (incest). I don't agree with an unthinking march towards anything goes sexuality. Some aspects of sexuality have value to human dignity (e.g. women's sexuality and homosexuality) and some don't. Not every urge needs to be explored and validated. I don't see any value to human dignity in BDSM or any of the other stuff I've included above.

Pineapple: "I think what I liked about the book was wanting someone to grab me and be that passionate the sex couldn't wait as in real life we know this generally isn't the case especially in a committed relationship and with children."

I get that this is a major part of the appeal. But why can't a writer signal that level of passion with, I dunno, wild sex up against the filing cabinet in the office at lunchtime when you know your boss might walk in at any moment? Why is the only way writers like EL James seem to be able to get their point across is by resorting to the man being violent? This is what I meant about lazy writing, and violence being used as a shorthand for passion when in fact for most of us it's the antithesis of passion.

^^ to Hubert.

It's something we are not used to seeing and reading which is where the appeals lie such as being attracted to the bad boy

Also, where is SolidGoldBrass when you want her? I've read extracts of her book (have no kindle onto which to download it, if you're wondering why I've been tight and haven't bought it, SGB) and one of the things that struck me in one scene was the fact that the domme knows her sub is choosing to acquiesce, there's a kind of cocky "only 'cos I let you" vibe under the surface which is part of the appeal for both of them, and part of what she finds a turn on, because it's no fun dominating someone who is genuinely utterly wet and weedy - they're just boring!

Maybe it's because I'm used to fanfic (where 50sog originated) - but believe me, Pineapple, I'm not unused to reading this stuff. The challenge is more avoiding it. Which is why I find it so bizarre, because straw polls in real life suggest it's a minority interest, but sheer volume on fanfiction websites would suggest it's anything but. (In fact, it's a major reason why so many women read slash - you are far more likely to find relationships of equals in slash than in het fiction, plus the former tends to be much better written). So fanfiction is this really weird subculture where if you want to read sex between equals you have to read slash, most of the het is (to my tastes) unpleasantly submissive, and there's a small fraction of decent het.

Flora I guess I wouldn't be welcome in your world. Not everyone thinks the same feels the same or behaves the same and that shouldn't be changed. You appear to want to change everyone to your way of thinking and remove that you don't approve it that's sounds like domination and tyranny

I suppose fanfictiom is way or mentally experiencing or third party experiencing something you don't want to do yourself or won't do so you could call it escapism maybe that's why there is more of it plus we all have a darker side although not always sexually