to move DD from her nice independent school where she has a scholarship because her brother didn't get offered one?

[middleschoolmuddle]

We are not rich but nor are we poor. The school have offered us a 16% bursary for DS - it's not enough.

Would it be mean to move DD to a state school at this stage (Y9)? Has anyone done this?

I can't think straight, my mind is whirring so I'd love some perspective from those of you that have managed to use the local 'good' state schools and pass up the rather nice (best in County) independent one.

Hakluyt, there was the possibility of a 100% bursary for a child from a state school. it was not clear that this would be means tested.

MrsCB we are hoping for superselective for 6th form.

Our state schools are fine but they do not offer the experience that we are looking for for our children.

Like I said in my OP We are not rich but nor are we poor. I guess private school just isn't for the likes of us and we shouldn't even be considering it.

I grew up in a fairly deprived area, my mum had a low paid manual job, my dad too and they managed to send me to a great school at some expense to themselves. Just a pity I didn't make more of myself I guess.

Our kids are saying that they are going to work so hard and get jobs that pay well so that they can afford what we quite clearly can't.

Well if she doesn't like the commute or living away from friends, then leaving the school might not be such a big thing for her.

Also if you do have to move your DD, well as a friend said to me - if that's the worst thing that happens in your DD's childhood - it really isn't that bad

^Worth repeating. Becuase the poster (and her mate) speak volumes of good sense.

I think you are getting an unfair slating here OP. You are just trying to do the best you can for your kids and if you want to put all the finances you can into that, it makes you good parents, not bad. Plenty of people in history have worked multiple jobs and long hours to provide the best they can for their kids.
As for comments about state schools not being salt mines, well no. But a bad state school can be really shit. I know I went to one. Friends who went to decent state schools or private schools drop their jaws when I tell then that it never occurred to me I could be a doctor or lawyer and I'd never even heard of an engineer. Four state schools in my local authority have either no or one percent of pupils getting the minimum target set for qualification levels. OP you have to decide what is best based on your knowledge of local schools and your family's priorities for finances.

I think you are right about private schools not being for 'middle earners'. And to be honest at my local private schools you wouldn't have got such a big bursary unless you had very few assets.

Could she go to the super selective before sixth form?

*Our kids are saying that they are going to work so hard and get jobs that pay well so that they can afford what we quite clearly can't.

I have been nobly resisting the temptation to suggest giving up Sky, stopping smoking, holidaying in Cornwall, and driving a beaten up old Volvo. Which is, apparantly,the way most people manage to afford private school fees......

I grew up in a fairly deprived area, my mum had a low paid manual job, my dad too and they managed to send me to a great school at some expense to themselves. Just a pity I didn't make more of myself I guess.

It's what I said in my earlier post, you need to look at it as a % of their disposable income and their other outgoings as a whole to determine affordability. You can't just look at it in a vacuum

^Our kids are saying that they are going to work so hard and get jobs that pay well so that they can afford what we quite clearly can't.

OP, if that's what your DCs are saying, they've clearly picked up from you that you value private school above all else, and consider any other kind of school a poor second best.

You need to reassure them that whatever school they go to, what's imporant is that they are happy. And set about doing everything you can to support them and whatever school they end up at.

And no, you're right that private school is no longer for middle earners. I went to private school. My dad was a small town solicitor. My school friends had parents who were GPs, vets, accountants, dentists, farmers, academics - all your average middle class, middle earners - and most of their mothers didn't work so I'm talking about families with one earner. That is no longer the case. The cost of private school has kept rising while wages have barely changed and the cost of living, particularly housing, has gone through the roof. There is no harm in aiming high and going for those scholarships - but when you don't get them its insanity to pay the fees anyway because you've fallen in love with the idea of that education. You have to know when to be realistic and walk away.

You are tied into middle class aspirations but have failed to notice that these are only affordable to people much much richer than you.

The things you wwant are not tantalisingly within reach

Frankly £60K for 3 kids to go to private school and university and one parent not work is bonkers. I know £60K is well over the average UK salary but in private school terms it's pitiful.

The £189K draw down is not your money. It's not sitting there for you to spend and yes 50% of £60K on mortgage + the rest on private school and being unable to afford the car servicing is absolute crazy talk.

To compare - I'm on £85K, no kids, husband currently out of work, 1/3 salary on mortgage. I still can't afford all those lovely things in the lifestyle mags or the luxury holidays. If I had kids only 1 could go to private school so none of them would. They are for people much much richer - we are being conned into a lifestyle of debt. No-one can afford these things except the 1%.

I hope your DH has critical illness insurance etc as you have no savings either and currently everything is riding on him.

You need some serious financial advice (and not just from someone who wants to sell you products) to see all your kids through university and get some cash in the bank. Honestly, I'd downsize to the catchment of a good local school and then enjoy the cash and savings released to spend on tutoring, extra-curriculars and most importantly enjoying family life.

I was just about to post similar to Juneau.

The mix of parents at private schools is quite different to what it used to be or certainly in my experience.

MuttersDarkly thank you so much for writing all that, it's good sound advice.

Thanks also to the rest of you for helping me sort though this mess.

We obviously sought financial advice which is why we have the mortgage set up that we do. Along the way, DH has changed jobs (took a pay cut) and my employment situation still isn't optimal.

Yes this is risky, but what's the worst that can happen? The DC end up going to one of the 'best' comps in the country? It's obviously a risk we are/were prepared to take but time is catching up with us and our options are narrowing/doors are closing.

I'm not some sort of feckless idiot that hasn't thought long and hard about all this. We have a lovely home in a nice part of the country, 3 gorgeous smart funny considerate kids that can do all sorts of amazing things and 15 years of marriage under our belt with no real problems thus far.

It's obviously just a step too far to hope that we can privately educate our kids...

I'd also agree with Juneau. I went to private school and my parents were both on low pay but: I was an only child, we were constantly broke and in arrears on the fees and the mortgage, we had no (and I mean no) luxuries at all. Even with a scholarship and a bursary. And my mum who was the main earner often found the pressure on her to keep the money coming in unbearable.

You could send one child now if both parents were doctors say, but that child would really be noticing that they had a very different life to their school friends - cheaper clothes, less holidays, not going on school trips etc. These things really make a difference to school life (mine was bloody miserable, I was friends with the other 2 'poor' kids).

Parents of kids at private school now have very different jobs and incomes to what they had when I was at school - the doctors, vets, academics etc have largely gone or are relying on scholarships. The fees have gone up much more than salaries. £60K and 3 kids does not equal private school.

whats the worst that can happen

You lose your house and the DC have to be taken out of the private school.
Not to be harsh - but based on your previous posts - you and your DH would make it explicitly clear to them why this financial catastrophe had happened whilst leaning in them for emotional support.

here is a happy thought: your dd and both ds go to state school. It turns out to be a good school. You have money for music lessons, extracurriculars and even tutors. You can save towards university. you can afford to take musical dd to concerts and summer camps for budding musicians. You and dh are happy and unstressed and have time and energy to invest in your dc.

They do not offer the experience that we are looking for for our children.

One note on this OP. You clearly are in thrall to the private school experience - and I can understand that - but this is where you come in. All those parents who went to private schools themselves, but can't afford it for their DC (most of my school friends, in fact, and my two brothers), are still instilling those values in their DC. The values of hard work, the world is your oyster, aim high, go for the best university, the best job you can, travel, expand your horizons, join teams, play a musical instrument, practice, don't give up, read books, keep up to date with current affairs - all those things that make succeeding in life more likely.

If you send all three of your DC to the best state schools available you will have the money for those extra-curricular things that enrich their lives and you will have the time too as you won't be spending lots of it commuting back and forth. Plus, what about family holidays and days out? Presumably you're struggling to pay for those things too currently. Those things can add massive value to a child's life experience and will balance out what you feel their educational experience lacks. All the parents I know with DC at state schools do many, many things outside school to give their DC that broad life experience that will set them up for success in their lives. Private school may be a short-cut, but its by no means the only way.

We have been on this private/state hamster wheel for the last 10 years or so. My eldest 2 know what they like in a school and unfortunately it costs money. The little one hasn't experienced any private education bar nursery but he wants something more than his current offering.

The kids are very well adjusted, no obvious self-esteem issues and they are close to each other.

No Sky subscription, no holidays in Cornwall and the car that's about to fall to bits is a mondeo :)

I'd add that when I went to university, it was clear that those with middle income parents that had been to the good local state school had done just as well and had had really enjoyed the lifestyle that had been freed up by the cash saved - skiing holidays, Caribbean holidays, big houses etc were the norm for them. Meanwhile they sneered at us private school bunch for going to private school when yes, we'd done that but had been living on beans on toast.

The thing is OP it seems that you and your DH are not prepared to make any sacrifices to provide what you want for your children.

Just think how much you could pay in school fees without the lovely home in a nice part of the country ... There are people who fund school fees while living above chip shops or doing two jobs each. Often because they see a chance to lift their child out of a future based on other peoples stereotyped reactions to them.

The little one hasn't experienced any private education bar nursery but he wants something more than his current offering.

This is priceless.

"but he wants something more than his current offering."

He's in year 3!

Posted too soon -

You obviously don't see yourself in that class OP - but I don't think you're quite where you think you ought to be either.

"I'd add that when I went to university, it was clear that those with middle income parents that had been to the good local state school had done just as well and had had really enjoyed the lifestyle that had been freed up by the cash saved - skiing holidays, Caribbean holidays, big houses etc were the norm for them"

I really do feel I've fallen into some sort of alternative universe!

juneau, we do enrich the DC's lives in the way that you suggest. It's about them enjoying the time they spend at school as much as anything else. DD loves school, her friends, her form teacher, her form group, her orchestra, her choir.

My DS is v. good at drama and at his current middle school he has had zero opportunity to engage with it. He knows what opportunities are available to him in this arena at DD's school.