to move DD from her nice independent school where she has a scholarship because her brother didn't get offered one?

[middleschoolmuddle]

We are not rich but nor are we poor. The school have offered us a 16% bursary for DS - it's not enough.

Would it be mean to move DD to a state school at this stage (Y9)? Has anyone done this?

I can't think straight, my mind is whirring so I'd love some perspective from those of you that have managed to use the local 'good' state schools and pass up the rather nice (best in County) independent one.

I visit lots and lots of state schools as part of the widening access scheme for Oxbridge and I'm time and time again shocked that basic advice from schools is either missing, wrong or late.

oranges You've said what I was trying to say so much better than I could.

I do think it gives you more choices
Op, can you be a little more concrete regarding what extra "choices" will be available to your kids if they're privately schooled? Real, actual examples rather than the trite, wishy washy phrase you've used?
My kids are going through the state system; and I don't believe I've reduced their life choices in any meaningful way?

I think your private experiences depend on what else is available locally. We are North and rural and the only 2 state secondary schools easily accessible to us both fall in and out of special measures on a cyclical basis. Neither have had a long term head teacher for a while. Primary schools also vary considerably with the best all round schools consistently being 2 or 3 of the tiny oversubscribed little village schools! I personally wasn't particularly for private school-I was state educated and achieved better results than DH who was private-we both ended up with the same vocational degree. However our experiences at junior level with state schools led to us gradually moving all 3 of our kids to a private school. I guess we are lucky as our school isn't particularly formal, posh or regimented. It reminds me of (what I now can see was) my very good state education 20-30 years ago, with basic rules and expectations that I think are important and now lacking in a lot of the state sector. My kids are also all very bright and state primaries couldn't give them enough stimulation-teacher time was spent focussing on the kids with behavioural needs and those who couldn't achieve the required standards.

middle perhaps the decision to make is this-keep the status quo for now and spend the next few months focussing solely on finding that elusive job! And ensure it is not just you who is looking but also your DH using any contacts etc. Then you can release some of the financial pressure-your working role will be solely to fund (or part fund) the education you so desperately want for your children. Also think about changing your lifestyle and saving or making a bit more cash. Sounds crazy but I have a target of making (on average) a tenner a day just from selling secondhand stuff-clothes, books, furniture etc. Sounds like a pittance but adds a few grand at the end of the year. Leave the lovely Waitrose and shop somewhere more cheaply. Buy-horror of horrors!- second hand stuff-my kids love to wear Hollister, Jack Wills etc but know full well anything they get has been someone else's before! It makes a big difference to spend a tenner on a hoodie rather than £60!

If we have enough by then, we hopefully won't have to beg Jaffa! Just have to see what opportunities come our way

Our background is State School and mine was awful. I'd pay for private if my old school was the alternative.

I don't see the private schools I know making the kids cultured tbh. I think we are lucky to have good music available through the LA here. Can't think of anything beyond far fancier theatrical productions but the pupils I know aren't involved anyway, same for sports facilities good but avoided by those I know!

Yes to better off parents at private; some dodgy ones too who are nothing to aspire to imo!

I think you should leave your DD where she is OP. However, nothing wrong with local schools either. It does seem hard luck on DS but that's life and hopefully he won;t miss what he's never had.

I come from a background where I went to private school and DP and I both work FT but even so, with very well paid careers (I'm an accountant, he owns his own business), we cannot afford to send our children to private school. We have different priorities perhaps - I'd rather they have amazing adventures on holidays which we couldn;t fund if they were private.

What I can see though, now DD has started school, that actually it's not all about how spendy the school is but whether it's a caring, happy environment. DD is doing great, she's encouraged lots at home by us and I'm sure my DS will be the same. The local primary is excellent, the local high school is pretty good too.
I guess we're lucky that there are no decent private schools in the area (apart from a boarder which I'd never do), so our choices are simple (and it also means we have damn good teachers in the area who haven't been lured off to private school by money).
When I went to private school, the local schools were not good as all the decent teachers flocked to my school!

An what's all this about university being the be all and end all? Uni is not the right place for many young people. There are apprenticeships, training colleges etc!

scone cultural capital isn't about being cultured in the traditional sense (knowing about opera etc).

Having cultural capital means you have the skills, credentials, knowledge, taste etc that are shared by a particular group in society.

It is valuable and costly.

Hi - my dcs go to private schools - they have scholarships but only for 10% of the fees so we pay a little more than you would.

I have to put aside 2000 a month to pay for fees.

Even with higher discounts that you get, you realistically need 1500pm.

Your dh's net monthly income must be around 3000. Can you live of 1500 pm (including payment of all bills) in your current house? Look at all of your outgoings.

If you can't, you have your answer.

" I suppose if I had to define DH and I, it would be that we were first generation university students from humble working class backgrounds.
Just out of interest, how many . . . have a similar background?" I'm also first generation university, parents both left school at 16 with minimal qualifications.

DD is in an 'inadequate' secondary school, 44% of intake with some SEN, below national average results (and this is Wales, so already worse than England), so I'm not going to talk about 'good' secondaries.

Do I wish she were in a different school - sometimes, maybe, but then I see people I know who went to selective state or private schools, and many have a very narrow range of people that they are comfortable with, have no friends outside a particular professional class, and really IMO have a very narrow world view.

Should point out that I am saying 'many' not 'all' before I get flamed Just pointing out that there are advantages to everything.

Yes I get that, I was just waffling really.

My point is that paying for a "ordinary" private school doesn't seem so great a deal to me if the local state is offering something nearly as good.

I think it's that the private schools in my area that I'd be able to use are just not so distinctive; I can't afford the public schools!

I find all of this stuff so difficult, why can't I just make a decision and stick to it?

Thanks again to all of you for sharing your experiences.

Cultural capital doesn't mean being cultured. It means understanding how things work and knowing how to take part in it. And about feeing that you have the right to take part in it. I haven't explained that very well. But it's about privilege. Not necessarily financial privilege- you can have loads of cultural capital but be completely broke.

Then I 'd rather stick with my real capital, ta!

Ah scone sorry, I misunderstood.

I think what cultural capital an 'ordinary' private school provides, as opposed to a big name school, is interesting.

And about feeing that you have the right to take part in it.

This ^^ and it's about knowing what there is to take part in.

flogging some of the choices I think are available to my kids being in our local private school rather than state (this will probably vary for other people!)
Is an international boarding school so my kids have friends from Asia (HK, China, Malaysia, Korea), Russia, Canada. Some stay with us at weekends and have return invites to visit their friends home countries.
Option to learn a huge range of musical instruments (additional costs of course!), then join one of 5 or 6 bands which have annual tours abroad and also perform locally at a variety of events.
Huge range of sporting options and access to National players and/or coaches (some of them former pupils). Busy practice and fixture list, travelling quite a distance if needs be to get the matches. 60 acres of sports fields, courts and pitches. International sports tours jollies for senior teams.
Fantastic drama department and theatre, with costume maker, set designer and theatre technicians so they can produce professional shows-either for GCSe or A-level or just as extra-curricular.
Extensive old boy network, offering work placements for other students recently left or for those wanting work experience. These are either requested by the student or advertised by the old boy. Amazing mix of careers presentations by former pupils or current parents in a huge range of fields, including various famous figures. Old boy meet ups in various other parts of the country which enable former pupils to network more easily. It really can be "who you know" however tenuous the actually "knowing".
Mixing with families who don't think twice about taking a friend for little Johnny on their family ski trip/to their French Chateau/insert other fancy holiday here.
Plus of course-extensive range of subjects at GCSE and A-level, small to minuscule class sizes (DS1 max GCSE class size is 18, smallest is 8). Limited disruption in class as pupils selected by entrance exam. Issues with schooling etc addressed immediately-have always had immediate call bacK from teachers etc.

Now don't get me wrong-many of these aren't particular relevant to me-as I posted earlier my decision for private school was because of the failure of local state schools. But these are just a few things that people may consider important in selecting private education.

War I have been trying to come up with ways to make money. I have skills, I create things and other people make money from those things. How can I turn it around so that I'm the one making the money?

As I've said before, DH is an expert in his field. I've been trying to get him to think of a way that he could 'assestise' (is that even a word?) his expertise that wouldn't flout his work contract.

Then again if I took out a mortgage I probably could afford it... (Sorry OP!)

Good luck to you OP. It's one long open ended experiment raising children isn't it?

Yes there is a part of cultural capital that involves knowledge of what's on offer and assuming the right to take it...

But actually, so much of modern cultural capital actually costs the Real Stuff to gain the necessary skills and credentials.

So for example, there is no point knowing that the economics department at the LSE provide an unoffical training for Goldmans if you can't afford for your DC to go to university in London .

Ah, but that's a total amount owing of £202k not £189k. So to draw down the amount you're saying would cost you £13k in interest which is eye-watering.

But probably not much more than the moving costs (in stamp duty) if they downsize.

*inc stamp duty

For me to have put my kids through private school - yeah they could have tried for scholarships but not to bank on it - would have involved so many lifestyle sacrifices, for them and for me, that it would have destroyed the cultural capital I have been able to give them instead.

And I am now in a position to know for certain that I will be able to support them through whatever choices they make at university for first and subsequent degrees / exams.

When I was broke I said no to them. Now I am not, I love being able to say yes. the joy of no mortgage any more