to move DD from her nice independent school where she has a scholarship because her brother didn't get offered one?

[middleschoolmuddle]

We are not rich but nor are we poor. The school have offered us a 16% bursary for DS - it's not enough.

Would it be mean to move DD to a state school at this stage (Y9)? Has anyone done this?

I can't think straight, my mind is whirring so I'd love some perspective from those of you that have managed to use the local 'good' state schools and pass up the rather nice (best in County) independent one.

Another reason for NOT moving your DD.
This year's year 9 will be the first year doing the new "Gove" GCSEs in English and Maths. Teaching for these starts in September 2015. Not sure about English but the maths syllabus has a lot more stuff in it and is harder than the previous one. (Govt are suggesting schools try and find up to an extra hour a week for maths teaching to cope with the extra in the syllabus). All schools are going to find the transition hard and students in your DD's year are bound to be guinea-pigs to some degree, whatever school she is in. If you move her, you will be adding her unsettledness/need for adjustments etc to any problems/hassles the school is having implementing the new schemes. If you leave her where she is, at least she is in familiar surroundings with teachers she knows and who know her, even if the school have some teething troubles with the new implementations.

War I want a full time job!

YY to the "agendas at work that aren't always obvious"

We have been debating what to do for our sons, esp eldest as part way through year 2, so could start at a prep next year.

However, isn't the goal university? University is IMO accessible for anyone who wants to work hard. Lots of Harrow boys do pretty standard degrees at pretty standard universities so I'm thinking more and more than the independent sector is more about the 'experience' rather than the outcome.........

IMO, explore your sons options much more. I think you have far more options than you think. Your dd is not committed IMO so leave her alone.

Opps! I mean NOW not NOT

But family will help Gen35 but the private schools I know of are not the type where they have a lot of imagination beyond the school gates. We are pointing out opportunities in the areas we know.

I'm currently being underwhelmed by friends' and family's experiences in private. I am wel jel of those learning Latin though!

Op we could afford private but it's not better enough to justify cost and logistics.

me- middle class. Complicated background- child of immigrants-most of childhood spent abroad. Graduate. Child of graduates but not British ones. One state educated child at a Russell Group. Other state educated child currently undecided. Dp very working class roots. first of his family to stay at school past 14. Except an uncle who was a priest. Also graduate.
Not sure how this helps the debate though.

There are no grandparents with big houses and holiday homes abroad for my kids to aspire to.

Is this reallly what you want your children to aspire to?

I've said it before - when people are giving advice on here it would be really useful to know a bit more about their background as oftentimes there are differing agendas at work that aren't always obvious.

Well, no hiding your agenda, is there? I suspect anyone without that gilded past, that private education, does not have an opinion worth noting, eh?

OP you are not painting a very pretty picture of yourself. Let's hope your children grow up with better values.

Oh, could afford private school but chose for ideological reasons not to.

Full disclosure- the child currently at university went to a grammar school. Other child is at a secondary modern. He is hoping have a shot at Cambridge- like so many of his stand up comedy heroes.

I understand what the OP is getting at.

People from working class backgrounds have less cultural capital. Private schools will often oversee some of this for its customers.

That said, OP, I think the cultural capital of the traditional middle classes is getting less and less valuable.

Ds is at a private school. It's 25% of my income (housing is 10%) so it's affordable. I'd like to say that he'll go to Oxford and do whatever he wishes but he's a bit lazy and not at all self motivated and is predicted B's, a couple of A's and an A* for GCSE. He can bump these up with some work but it depends on whether he's prepared to put the effort in. Private school isn't one to invest in in the hope that your DC get into Oxford! He doesn't give 2 hoots about the lunches and he pops out to the local shop instead. He plays the cello but otherwise he doesn't bother with all that the school offers. Bit of a waste in my opinion

Alice I think the OP is saying quite te opposite.

I think she is pointing out that if you're from a middle class background with plenty of cultural capital you can afford to not give a jot about the benefits that private school brings...so your opinion may not be that relevant to someone without said capital.

"People from working class backgrounds have less cultural capital. Private schools will often oversee some of this for its customers."

Absolutely. But the op appears to be referring to financial rather than cultural capital!

I have read most of this but I am still quite amazed that assumptions and suppositions as to where the money would come from for subsequent DCs, possibly because I work on what we have, not what we might have.
We have twins and a joint income that is rather more than the OP (not any kind of boast) as we both work however we've looked into school fees and definitely cannot afford both of them in independents around where we live. The affordability was only on fees, without the factoring in of the extras that have been mentioned which would cripple us, even without a mortgage. We will just have to make the best of what we can do for them as, I suspect, most people do.

Thanks for sharing Hak.

LadySybilLikesSloeGin
Flip 35% of income on housing and school fees - you must be loaded!! Can you sponsor my kids pleeeeeeeeeese!

Hak I think they're now irrevocably intertwined.

There's no point knowing how to help your DC get an internship if you can't afford to help them through it.

re cultural capital - this is true for immigrants too. Dh and I are the children of first generation immigrants who made HUGE sacrifices to send me to private school. They were worth it, tbh. We did much better and fitted into Oxbridge and other exclusive environments, which brought about success, as a result. But now our children are state educated because a)we dont really have the appetite to make such huge sacrifices and b)we now have good connections, confidence and understanding of the system to get our children into coveted, respected state schools and give our children the extra advantages we would otherise pay a private school to provide.

Oh beg Glittertwins for buy one get one free - more common than I thought!!

I work about 70 hours a week though, that's the trade off I haven't had a full day off since before Christmas.

LadySybil, DS is at a very good state school with many wonderful opportunities which DS systematically fails to take advantage of.

I can't begin to imagine how I'd feel if I were paying for that pleasure. My fury would have no bounds I'm sure!

How long have you tried to get a FT job?

I'm not a stalker promise but you are an extremely distinctive poster and the common theme for what I suspect are your previous threads seem to be your angst over your children's education. I suspect we live in the same vicinity or I could be completely barking up the wrong tree!

I'm going throw it out there - bloody hell, just make a decision and move closer to either Cambridge, Colchester or Ipswich!

Just out of interest, how many of you reading this and raving about good state schools and the madness of our plan have a similar background?

I am from a working class / underclass (probably more the latter) background. I went to an inner city comp which was one of the worst schools in the country. My DH is from a Similar background to me.
I am the only person in my immediate and extended family to have a university degree.
I have more than one child but only one is in private education. His fees are reduced hugely by a significant scholarship and the rest of his fees (much less than your contribution) come from very careful budgeting and saving, but none of children go without. My children would never be at the same school as they have very different needs but if I couldn't afford the fees then my currently privately educated child would be at the state school which suited him best (or we could get a place at). If I had to increase my mortgage borrowing every year to pay the fees then I would not be sending my child to private school as it would be clear that I cannot afford it. I want my outstanding mortgage to get smaller as I get older, not bigger.

poverty of aspiration is a real thing, although I don't think op's dc will suffer from it but I can understand that worry - you have to have the idea/expectation to try and access relevant advice and the confidence to believe something is doable. The Internet is helping to level the playing field - easier to research people's careers etc than it ever has been

cheekyradish you made me laugh. Fancy meeting for a drink sometime?