to move DD from her nice independent school where she has a scholarship because her brother didn't get offered one?

[middleschoolmuddle]

We are not rich but nor are we poor. The school have offered us a 16% bursary for DS - it's not enough.

Would it be mean to move DD to a state school at this stage (Y9)? Has anyone done this?

I can't think straight, my mind is whirring so I'd love some perspective from those of you that have managed to use the local 'good' state schools and pass up the rather nice (best in County) independent one.

I could be wrong Gen35 but I think people like you may be best placed to get the most from a state education.

But this isn't private school v state school. It's about what you want v what you can afford.

This. Really. Bottom line.

TheWord, I 've read about your background before and I know that you are no advocate for state education.

Being able to afford it is all relative. We have a very comfortable life. We shop in Waitrose and our kids want for nothing (within reason). We have a lovely home in a desirable part of the country that we own two thirds of and 2 cars (one of which is a banger). Our DC have rich and varied lives and they are being taught to play instruments by fabulous teachers at quite a bit of expense. We have 8 years of private education under our belt, and all this on one OK salary.

If I get a decent job then is it not possible that we could just bumble along as we have been doing? For every year that passes, more and more of the mortgage gets paid off - it's not as if we are suspending payments.

middle

Pre crash it wasn't unheard of for people in places like California to use the equity in their homes like other people use ATM machines.

There were people on non spectacular incomes living pretty nice lives, spending what they thought was more or less the same as ".banked" money. Post crash, they were fucked beyond the edge of fucked. Bankrupt at a time of their life when they had dependants who struggled to adjust to their new normal, and not enough years left to start again from scratch.

Equity is imaginary money right until the point somebody buys your house and gives you lovely ,solid, real cash. You don't know if "your" equity is real or fantasy based on inflated assumptions until you cash it in, or quail at the news story announcing the house price crash of the millennium.

What you are doing is using a very expensive (due to the long term of the loan) form of debt accumulation to pay for the school fees.

Post crash, when the writing on the wall is in Ten Foot Letters that consolidating your security is far far better life/mental health protection for all family members in an uncertain world than beefing up your insecurity.... you are beefing up your insecurity.

I don't think you got very good advice from the perspective of the bigger picture.

Not when our generation cannot be certain that we will attract even the current level of state support for older people, or under employed people.

Not when our generation is going to have to compete for longer in a global job market, being all expensive compared to bright young things and perhaps a bit lagging and knackered in keeping up with the "new and shiny" curve in our industries.

It is not selfish to consider your longer term security as a couple as a priority. Everybody in the family suffers if a downturn, a change of fortunes or bad luck in the form of accident/illness/joblessness what could have been a manageable drama, into a full blown crisis.

And then there are the Not So Golden Years. We looked after FIL and MIL, the latter in our home. The strain of trying to bring up our own family, work and take care of the previous generation nearly broke us. I don't want that for DS. There would be no point to our having run a veritable marathon obstacle course to get him access to decent education, only to turn around and blight his life with heavy duty obligations towards us, so he couldn't reap the rewards or enjoy the life we have tried so hard to make accessible to him.

Do you see what I mean ? It's not a case of a legal and well known f. product validating your choices. It's about the bigger picture and how the choices you make have ramifications in other areanas in a future you have no way of knowing the details of.

I really would think about a Family Finance WellBeing Check Up. Not one where products sold pay for the time invested by the expert. Not one focused on paying for a specific thing. One that is solely focused on showing you the pros and cons of the various routes available to you in bigger picture terms, so you can chose based on being fully informed rather than maybe stumbling about in the dark, not even knowing what you don't know.

I promise I am not being horrible. I didn't know what I didn't know. In some ways life was easier when I didn't. But on the other hand, I am ".life biting me on the bum when I didn't know my arse was exposed" averse, so it is better this way.

Rufus, was private school just not on your radar at all then?

i don't agree with the earlier posters who say that you should keep your DD in private education until after her GCSEs. Each term that she stays in her current school means that you are borrowing more money. You can't afford to pay it back, which means that you are in a scary amount of increasing debt.

You've had a hard time on this thread and have listened to what everyone has said, which means you are not in total denial. I believe you know deep down that your current lifestyle is not sustainable. It's really difficult to decide to swallow your pride and forget about private schooling but that is exactly what you need to do as soon as possible. Your children will be fine whatever school they attend because they have two loving parents who care about them.

Thanks again Mutters. Don't suppose you know off hand what a decent pension pot should hold for a 46 year old (DH)?

I will admit to having my head in the sand about our future (me and DH), I just don't like to think about it.

Pension pot depends on what kind of income you want when he retires?

Also, will you have other investments etc that can generate income?

"
I could be wrong Gen35 but I think people like you may be best placed to get the most from a state education."

What sort of people get the most out of state education?

And Word- nobody is saying that all comprehensives are super duper. Many seem to be saying that all private schools are, though!

You can't afford to pay it back, which means that you are in a scary amount of increasing debt.

We can afford to pay it back, it's currently around a third of DH's salary each month.

I thought that was pretty standard, no?

Is it really irresponsible to have a £150K mortgage over 14 years??

How much do you all owe then?

I'm worried that the figures in your chart don't actually cover interest at all. I've been arranging a mortgage at the moment, and any repayment graphs I have generated were curved - slow small shallow curve at the start and much more sharp drop at the end.

The only straight line graphs I've seen were for interest only mortgages. I really really hope you've got your maths right on this.

If I get a decent job then is it not possible that we could just bumble along as we have been doing?

Those with more forward-planning capabilities sacrificed being a SAHM (10 years is a pretty hefty time out of the job market) so that they weren't relying on the massive "if" of getting a decent job.

OP, I don't know where your qualifications and skills lie, but it's entirely possible that the jobs paying sufficient to enable you to "bumble along" are going to those that haven't taken time out.

Not to say that being a SAHM isn't right for many people/their families but it was clearly a choice for you, and choices have consequences...

(Disclaimer: I'm aware that in some circumstances, childcare costs would make it impossible for a parent to return to work. I don't think that's relevant here.)

"If I get a decent job then is it not possible that we could just bumble along as we have been doing? For every year that passes, more and more of the mortgage gets paid off - it's not as if we are suspending payments."

Well, there are a lot of assumptions there and some errors. You are not paying off more and more of your mortgage if you have to continue to take money from the draw-down facility in order to pay for schooling. Can you see that? Yes, you pay money every month and you have/will increase the monthly amount of money you pay but the capital sum is increasing every time you take school fees out. I can't believe any decent IFA suggested you fund private schooling this way.

As for getting a job, well frankly that seems unlikely if your DH is going to be so precious about your CV and not wanting you to take on anything that is beneath you. Even if he unclenches about that, you then have to actually get the job!

Hak, people that know how the system works; people that have parent's that own companies (or know people that do) and can offer their grandchildren a leg up in other ways.

Don't suppose you know off hand what a decent pension pot should hold for a 46 year old (DH)?

Back of an envelope calc. Work backwards. Based on earning £60k now, would he want to have a pension of £30k per year?

Then work out number if years it'll be in payment for (rough guess between ages 65-90 so 25 years).

So 30k x 25 years means you'll need to purchase an annuity worth £750k upon retirement. There'll be other factors to think about - ddependent benefits, increase each year etc but there of loads of annuity calculators on the internet.

Me: state educated (quite poor comp) child of scholarship independent educated mother and elite public school educated father. They met at Cambridge.

Dh: public school educated child of state educated parents with no higher education.

I went to v. Good university and have undergraduate and postgraduate qualifications. Dh has no qualifications post- quite poor A'levels.

Dcs all state educated. PILS offered to pay, as they did for other grandchildren. We declined.

What does this indicate? I suppose it's an example of expectations shaping children's futures. There was never any question of my going to university. I had excellent support at home in terms of valuing education. Dh went to a bells and whistles public school, but his parents didn't have any aspirations beyond that, in terms of university or whatever. That's not pejorative, they were very successful at what they did. So dh's model was more about business and money and so on, whereas mine was being good at crosswords and talking about books. Different strokes and all that!

I said this pages ago but did you do any modelling to see if you could afford to pay the increased mortgage back when interest rates start to rise? Slated to happen in 2017

The BBC have a good calculator to work it out.

DropYouSword, don't forget that we have been paying off our mortgage for 11 years already. We are on the sharp drop bit.

So the children who get the most out of state education are those whose grandparents own their own companies? This is just getting weirder and wierder.

Pooka, in your shoes I would probably be OK with a state education for my kids.

Do you intend to extend the life of your mortgage too, if you keep borrowing? If not, you've got a much bigger debt that needs to be paid in a much shorter time

Although, I have to admit, if it were over 25-30 years it might look more like the graphs I'm used to. Didn't occur to me that the shorter term of your loan, plus the UKs lower interest rate will significantly affect what it looks like!

"Hak, people that know how the system works; people that have parent's that own companies (or know people that do) and can offer their grandchildren a leg up in other ways."

Is this your answer to the question of who benefits most from a state school education???? You WORKED in a state school, don't you know who the system works? I'm also not sure why having a parent who owns a company will help a child at state school at opposed to anyone else, that's just mind-boggling! As for being able to help grandchildren out, presumably this means financially, but you are already paying for 3/4 extra-curricular activities from your income for each child! How much more did you need? And think how much easier it would be to pay for those activities or cram even more in if you really feel the need if you weren't also paying school fees!

Or people like Pooka. Stop being obtuse Hak, you must know what I mean. What's your background?

So you don't know what I mean either Unexpected? I know a bit, but I'm not up on what it takes to get to Oxbridge (although I have read plenty). Nothing beats having a chat with granddad about what he loved about Cambridge in the good old days.