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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to move DD from her nice independent school where she has a scholarship because her brother didn't get offered one?

999 replies

middleschoolmuddle · 07/02/2015 23:23

We are not rich but nor are we poor. The school have offered us a 16% bursary for DS - it's not enough.

Would it be mean to move DD to a state school at this stage (Y9)? Has anyone done this?

I can't think straight, my mind is whirring so I'd love some perspective from those of you that have managed to use the local 'good' state schools and pass up the rather nice (best in County) independent one.

OP posts:
Ketchuphidestheburntbits · 09/02/2015 10:39

Middle, my DH earns quite a bit less than your DH. My DC get far less than the maximum maintenance loan to cover their university living expenses and I couldn't leave them to fend for themselves. They have friends who have dropped out of studying because their parents had the same attitude as you and simply couldn't manage to pay rent and eat while fulfilling their course requirements.

My DC all went to our local comprehensive. They managed to get excellent GCSE and A level results and all attended Russell group universities. My DH and I both went to very average state schools but we are both qualified professionals (although we don't earn much!) because we had wonderful, supportive parents who encouraged us to do well. I honestly can't understand why anyone bothers with private education unless they are extremely wealthy or have absolutely horrendous local schools.

Inthedarkaboutfashion · 09/02/2015 10:42

I don't really get why many of you think it's so bad to pay for the school fees from our mortgage. We didn't dream this idea up, it came by way of a financial adviser.

Because you are increasing your mortgage payments which in turn could result in losing your home if you are unable to keep up with the mortgage payments. 50% of your income being spent on mortgage payments is a hefty amount when you also have 3 children to feed and clothe and provide activities for. Added to the fact that borrowing on your mortgage to pay school fees means that you are paying additional interest over a long period of time.
Anybody who increases their mortgage to pay school fees is (IMO) being a bit dim and taking a huge financial risk. I would get a new financial advisor.

Floggingmolly · 09/02/2015 10:45

You've calculated those figures yourself, op, admit it...
Forgetting completely that you have to pay for the privilege of borrowing, not just repay the capital amount. You are going to crash and burn Sad

Inthedarkaboutfashion · 09/02/2015 10:47

For illustration purposes, we currently owe £158K with 14 years left to pay. The monthly repayments on this are £941.

That £158k must include your interest as well as the capital, unless you have some mythical bank which allows you to now or money for free because £941 per month over 14 years = £158,088.
How much is the capital that you owe?
Have you miscalculated somewhere?
Are you on an interest only mortgage and so you will still owe all of the capital at the end of the 14 years?

YoullLikeItNotaLot · 09/02/2015 10:51

Floggingmolly
You've calculated those figures yourself, op, admit it...
Forgetting completely that you have to pay for the privilege of borrowing, not just repay the capital amount. You are going to crash and burn

Although one plus point of the OP's odd grasp of numbers is the increased mortgage payment of £1,186 is NOT 50% of the net amount of a £60k salary so they might be better off than they thought...

Floggingmolly · 09/02/2015 10:53

More by luck than design, YouLikeIt. Let's hope their luck holds for the next 14 years...

YoullLikeItNotaLot · 09/02/2015 10:55
Grin
Gobbolinothewitchscat · 09/02/2015 10:59

Did the school recommend that financial adviser? Because only someone with evident self-interest in getting you to send your children to that school would recommend paying the fees with that amount of debt as a percentage of income

You really need a new IFA

Plus as the others have set out, the figures don't seem to add up. Literally.

Original poster
middleschoolmuddle · 09/02/2015 11:01

Here's a snapshot from my mortgage account. The figures are a projection based on the current interest rate which as you've all reminded me (many times) will be likely to rise over the next few years.

to move DD from her nice independent school where she has a scholarship because her brother didn't get offered one?
OP posts:
arna · 09/02/2015 11:02

It's not all about DD though is it. I think that you might as well continue drawing down the extra £18K from your mortgage for the next 2 years for her to complete YR11.

Without increasing your household income by a shedload, it's not possible to give your remaining DC the same opportunity and that's essentially the crux of the matter. Bearing in mind, I believe you have consciously chose to (a) turn down a job offer and (b) your DH has opted for a lower salary for a better life/work balance recently (c) you spent a small windfall on a few nice holidays! I would not have chosen to do any of that, especially the latter, knowing that I had started on the path/commitment of school fees for DC1!

I really don't get it - you obviously live somewhere rural and you're clearly not over enamoured with your state school choices even to the lovely local town that you are considering moving to - if you don't even want to send your DC to the local 6th forms there and are contemplating sending them god knows where else.

Your optimism/aspirations have to be tempered by reality too. You need to work FT - anything and in your case, I wouldn't be choosy - it's a means to an end.

Original poster
middleschoolmuddle · 09/02/2015 11:03

Why would I lie about such things? Nothing on this thread that I have said has been a lie. I am genuinely looking for some advice and guidance so there would be no point it writing half-truths.

OP posts:
Gen35 · 09/02/2015 11:03

My dh didn't eat lunch for a year and was horrendously thin when Iet him while trying to survive on a less than it should have been parental contribution...do some proper financial planning including figuring out your university liabilities...

Inthedarkaboutfashion · 09/02/2015 11:11

Posting up a graph makes no difference to the fact that your level of repayment only covers the capital and not a single penny of interest.
You need another graph with the interest on.
I hope your DH does the finances in your house as it seems you don't have a clue.

WeldedParentMaterials · 09/02/2015 11:13

You are being very, very naive to the costs of university. Are you not expecting them all to go? Or just only expecting your DD to go?

Are you concerned that your DS is not academic but is into drama and that's why you think he needs to make the connections at private school to make it as an actor?

I think you are going about this all wrong. The opportunities your children could have if you weren't planning on wasting so much on fees... Your priorities are so far out of whack that it's frightening.

Inthedarkaboutfashion · 09/02/2015 11:15

Think I have got it now: the £158 included the interest repayable but assumes a very unrealistic low level APR over the 14 year period. The £202k includes the interest based on the additional borrowing but again assumes unrealistic level of APR even given the current low interest rates.

arna · 09/02/2015 11:16

Sorry, x posted.

To clarify, because I think that you are jumping here, there and everywhere. So the new hypothetical scenario (based on your mortgage calculator) is that, you're considering an extra £44K drawdown to increase your borrowing to £202K (on a current household income of £60K)? You only need £18K for DD to complete YR11 which leaves you potentially, £26K to fund DC2's school fees for 2 yrs, I guess. Let's not even think about DC3 for the moment.

You're still way short - you need to move house and release equity.

YoullLikeItNotaLot · 09/02/2015 11:17

Ah, but that's a total amount owing of £202k not £189k. So to draw down the amount you're saying would cost you £13k in interest which is eye-watering.

As an aside, I like that graph. Is that from your mortgage provider? I tried to get similar information (but on overpaying) from Santander and they said I'd need to speak to an ifa and they couldn't give me the information.

Original poster
middleschoolmuddle · 09/02/2015 11:20

Italiangreyhound, thanks for the link to the radio 4 program. I was sitting listening to it in the car last night whilst DD was at choir.

I've been thinking about the middle class and how they are finding it increasingly difficult to privately educate their kids. I bet there are quite a few like that on this thread.

First off, I don't think of myself in terms of class, I suppose if I had to define DH and I, it would be that we were first generation university students from humble working class backgrounds.

Just out of interest, how many of you reading this and raving about good state schools and the madness of our plan have a similar background?

OP posts:
YoullLikeItNotaLot · 09/02/2015 11:25

Just out of interest, how many of you reading this and raving about good state schools and the madness of our plan have a similar background?

Me. Council estate. Parents in manual jobs. I went to a secondary which was the worst in the city (and at the time, the city was one of the worst in England). DH was similar.

I was the first out of my family (and I include my extended family of cousins, aunties etc) to go to uni.

But this isn't private school v state school. It's about what you want v what you can afford.

Original poster
middleschoolmuddle · 09/02/2015 11:27

Youlllikeit, it's from Santander :) Contact them again and ask. It takes a week or so to set up as they send you 2 passwords etc. but it's very useful and you can mock up overpayment scenarios.

OP posts:
Gen35 · 09/02/2015 11:27

I'll hold my hands up - privately educated, can't afford the same for my kids and afford everything else and we have a much higher household income than you do at present.

YoullLikeItNotaLot · 09/02/2015 11:31

Hmmm, that's exactly what I wanted. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in the phone.

arna · 09/02/2015 11:32

Figures definitely not adding up - £60K gross is approx. £3500 pcm net. Half of that is £1750 not £1186! You're obviously undeclaring some income otherwise, your maths is way out.

I think that you are trying to convince yourselves that it will only cost you an extra £244 pcm to send DC2 to the same school as DD. I'm also guessing that you are hoping to increase your household income in the meantime which is possible.

I STILL think that you can achieve what you want by SELLING your house to release equity otherwise, it's too much stress/hassle/burden for your family as a whole.

TheWordFactory · 09/02/2015 11:32

Me OP.

I'm from a working class/under class background; very disadvantaged.

I went to a terrible comp but did well. I have a couple of degrees.

And yes I send my DC private. I completely understand why you want to. And I find the general tenor of threads like these ( that it doesn't matter and all comps are just super-duper) naive at best!

However, you just can't afford it OP.

That's the bottom line.

RufusTheReindeer · 09/02/2015 11:32

Dad was navy, mum worked in an office

Local state comprehensive, local state college, didn't go to university

I am a SAHM, our household income is higher than yours, 3 children all at state comprehensive

Mortgage is less than yours and should be paid off (unless we get another overwhelming impulse to extant the house again) in about 6 years

Not sure how that would help you??