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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to move DD from her nice independent school where she has a scholarship because her brother didn't get offered one?

999 replies

middleschoolmuddle · 07/02/2015 23:23

We are not rich but nor are we poor. The school have offered us a 16% bursary for DS - it's not enough.

Would it be mean to move DD to a state school at this stage (Y9)? Has anyone done this?

I can't think straight, my mind is whirring so I'd love some perspective from those of you that have managed to use the local 'good' state schools and pass up the rather nice (best in County) independent one.

OP posts:
MuttersDarkly · 08/02/2015 22:27

Are you speaking/writing from experience?

Kind of a mix of first, second and third hand.

Based on what I've observed as an adult (see para. 3) and felt myself as a parent (para 2) I strongly suspect my father walking out during my O levels was a sub conscious act of "taking a hammer and smashing it all up". In good part becuase he could no longer cope with the pressures that they as a couple had piled on themselves in the name of sacrifice for the sake of the children. Things just came to head at a time when there was no "graceful-ish exit from chosen pressures" option left. So ...the sledgehammer was the last remaining tool on the table. By the time that happened I am not entirely sure if the aspirations were really about us kids anymore. I have the sensation that they had been absorbed into their sense of identity and self worth. If I ever bump into either of them, I might ask. Grin

When it was my turn to make mistakes with my son's education it wasn't money related. But I concrete life jacketed us, and talked myself into an unsustainable corner with DS's educational options all the same. I was lucky. Pure and simple. Becuase my (rather sterotypically Italian when it suits him) husband is the World's Noisiest Secret Drownee. Despite my best efforts, I couldn't not hear the rampant spluttering. The arm waving was pretty dramatic too. Even from the depths of my tunnel vision of the time, I was kind of forced to pay attention before any thrown in towels made an entrance.

Where I live you get an awful lot of people on the cusp of being able to afford international school. And a great many of them talk themselves into something unsustainable becuase the alternative really, really doesn't suit them. There tends to be clusters of some quite spectacular towel throwing in and self sabotage (much to the horror and shock of the other spouse), just as the eldest gets near to end of KS3. I think that point may be connected to a length of time where people start to run out of steam, and/or see a small window of escape before they become trapped in a hamster wheel where they have to run flat out to stand still until the bitter end for the youngest.

Sacrifice on paper is very different to the reality. On paper we'd all walk on burning glass shards to get our children what we have talked ourselves into believing they need. Back in the real world, many of us are still the same fragile mortals with "long term martyrdom" aversion that we always were. And most of the time I reckon our kids do better if we suck up our limitations, lower our standards and be "good enough" for the long haul ........ rather than burning at the stake for them, and then falling to charred bits before the finish line is in sight. Leaving them high and dry when they least expected or needed us to reveal our feet of clay.

It's very complicated this being a parent thing. we can set the theoretical bar so damn high. And when we (predictably) knock it off proceed to beat ourselves over the head with it. All while the kid is standing there muttering ".when you've quite finished making this all about you, I could do with a hand here..."

Well I say "we". Might just be me.

Hakluyt · 08/02/2015 22:29

"Many, many people make huge sacrifices to afford private school fees (working 2 jobs, no holidays, old cars etc)"

Rather an......interesting..........definition of "huge sacrifice" here!

middleschoolmuddle · 08/02/2015 22:31

Are you going to say to your kids you won't even give them a penny then to help?

Yes!

OP posts:
middleschoolmuddle · 08/02/2015 22:38

Mutters, you've put that all so well. I will make a point of telling DH that he must wave his arms around and splutter plenty. Thank you so much for sharing.

OP posts:
Kundry · 08/02/2015 22:38

Then what was the point of their massively expensive school education?

RufusTheReindeer · 08/02/2015 22:40

Sorry, you're not going to help them at all?

Not even a food parcel? The other two will go to state school, hopefully work hard and get to university and you won't help them at all? Cos on 60k I'm not sure they get a very big student loan

I'm sure you mean you will do what you can...hopefully

Vijac · 08/02/2015 22:42

If she is going to move for a levels anyway then maybe you should move her now. Then they can all go to the same school in town and she can do gcses and a levels at that school. If she would have to move twice then keep her there-it's only two and a half more years.

Topseyt · 08/02/2015 22:44

From what I can see, and I have skimmed through most of the thread, you seem to have your head firmly in the sand about the debt you are building up and how you will service it.

Extending your mortgage to pay school fees is one of the craziest schemes I have heard of. It is suggested that over the next year or two interest rates (still at a historic low), will begin to rise again. You will be hit hard if that does happen, and you cannot bank on it not happening.

I have three children too. I would have loved to have had the opportunity of sending them to private school, but I know that we could never afford it and I am not prepared to jeopardise the financial security of my family and our home in order to make it happen. Yes, a decent education is important, but so is a happy and good quality family life. It sounds to me as though yours is a stressed out existence due to the financial straight jacket the school fees have put you into.

Some of the situation was partially foreseeable. There was always the possibility that your son may not have got into the school your daughter is already at. It has happened now, so I think you will have to live with it because year 9 is hardly an ideal time to move schools.

Hakluyt · 08/02/2015 22:50

So private school is vital- but university isn't? Hmm

Italiangreyhound · 08/02/2015 22:54

middleschoolmuddle I hope you find a way through all this.

I thought of the situation tonight as I listened to this on radio 4.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05108h6

Only caught a bit of it.

Good luck whatever happens.

Floggingmolly · 08/02/2015 22:55

Your last post makes you sound as if you just don't understand what you're making these sacrifices for, op. Muddled indeed...

ZeldaMae · 08/02/2015 22:56

DH was sent to private school AT GREAT SACRIFICE on MIL's part (is mentioned constantly).

He probably got sung to at lunch.

He was on his own for uni and beyond. His school had NOT prepared him for that. Loans means - tested against parents' income, assumption of help..

he almost sank without trace. Huge debts, feeling abandoned. Was told his mum had 'done her part'.

Took him a decade to pull it together.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 08/02/2015 23:07

It's very complicated this being a parent thing. we can set the theoretical bar so damn high. And when we (predictably) knock it off proceed to beat ourselves over the head with it. All while the kid is standing there muttering ".when you've quite finished making this all about you, I could do with a hand here..."

That's pretty damn brilliant......

bringmejoy2015 · 08/02/2015 23:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

antimatter · 08/02/2015 23:23

OP - have peek at threads in Higher Education where parents discuss expenses kids at uni face.
Then sit down and re-evaluate what you are really offering your children.
And face the fact that you really have 15 years of expenses ahead.

Obviously not compulsory to go to uni after A-levels but please don't mention it to your academic DD. She is unlikely to understand at 14 that at 18 she is going to go to work to save for her futher education. Regardless of all advantages you are showering her with now.

singsingsingsing · 08/02/2015 23:54

We have about the same take home pay as you, OP, a bit different as I work part time and can utilise my tax allowance, but it probably works out the same.

We never even considered private - and I'm so glad. Our eldest went to the local comp, it was lovely and freeeee, totally unselective, it's a nice school but not particularly fought for - you wouldn't get people from out of catchment scrabbling for places..

I couldn't be happier with how state school worked out for us. The school had fantastic facilities and used them well. They had a proper theatre and a pool. They competed nationally in sport,music and drama. DD went to school trips on four continents (we could afford it, because we were getting her education for free. She did well academically and is at an Oxbridge uni.

SnowBells · 09/02/2015 00:03

I haven't read all of this thread... but middleschoolmuddle you sound alarmingly like you give preferential treatment to DS?

You are distraught he didn't get a scholarship. You know your DD already commutes a long distance. And now you're thinking of moving closer to the state school your DS will attend which will make it harder for your daughter? Ever thought of moving closer to DD's school?! No?? Why not? You're obviously ready to do that for DS!

Ketchuphidestheburntbits · 09/02/2015 00:05

Middle, you sound just like my DHs ex. They put themselves under so much pressure with her ambitious ideas that eventually the marriage crumbled after their home was repossessed.

Have you really sat down and talked about how your DH feels about this? He is the one bearing the financial strain.

Bear in mind also that universities tend to allow a bit more leniency in grades towards state school pupils so that if they don't get all A and A* results they are more likely to get offered a place than privately educated students.

Topseyt · 09/02/2015 00:14

You can't simply cut them adrift for uni! Confused

Tuition fees of £9k a year plus rent and normal living expenses etc. My eldest was in a self-catering halls of residence on campus and had to pay rent of £136 per week.

Student loans are means tested against parental income. Ours is of a level that allows our daughter maximum loan. In your case though, I doubt that your £60k household income will qualify yours for very much.

My daughter relies on her loan and income from a part time job. We also contribute an affordable monthly amount to help out a bit, but we recognise that we are not particularly wealthy (though not in poverty either), and we still have two younger girls living at home.

AmarettoSour · 09/02/2015 00:23

I'll admit that private school is totally alien to me but I can't imagine paying £8.5k a year when you could send them to school for free! Shock

BramwellBrown · 09/02/2015 00:40

If you can afford to keep DD at private then don't move her, my parents took me out of private school where I was happy because DS didn't get a scholarship, I resented him for it for years. Your DD got a scholarship, it's not her fault DS didn't.

myron · 09/02/2015 01:37

I wouldn't move your DD and would seriously big up your DS's state school options now - you should ALWAYS have a Plan B.

I somehow doubt cutting 3 extra curricular activities and switching the kids to packed lunches will total an extra £12k! You basically need to find a £15k job or regular income which brings this net amount in, not accounting for fee inflation.

And that's only for 2 DC.....

There is an awful lot of pressure and what ifs on your DC to achieve a scholarship to score a fee discount because a bursary isn't enough. You are clearly very invested in your children's education so IMHO, your only REAL choice here (one on which you don't have to rely on hypotheticals) is the equity in your current home which you CAN realise by selling if you honestly want to pursue this path.

And while you're at it, I would buy a cheaper house somewhere which is nearer/more convenient for commuting to school and an area with better job prospects. Rural living does not equal great job prospects unless you're running your own successful business!

You and your Dh need to think long and hard about this one!

SugarPlumTree · 09/02/2015 04:04

I've just been looking into University finance for a friend's DD who is State educated but has had a fair whack of money from parents come her way over the years. Her Dad was of the opinion they had contributed enough and she would be on her own through University.

This is all well and good but as pointed out above on the thread, the amount if maintenance loan your DD will get depends directly on your household income and I think she will get the minimum. The expectation is you will contribute towards her living costs if you don't then you will put her at a very unfair disadvantage compared to those whose household income is lower so they get more maintenance and those whose household income is the same and get supported by their parents.

The amount of maintenance loan she would get is likely to just cover her rent if she is lucky but in many places isn't enough and she will be short of a few thousand a year for that, let alone travel, clothes, books and other bills. You will save by her not being at home with cheaper food and utility bills to some extent, less travel costs.

Really think you need to gave a rethink on your stance on contributing to University and start factoring that into the equation or you put her at a big disadvantage at University, should she want to go. To ignore this now is to continue to bury your head in the sand about your financial future.

Bonsoir · 09/02/2015 06:17

In your financial position you should move house now to be near the best state schools possible for all three DC. They will be able to walk to school and you will be able to get a job and your lives will be a lot less stressful!

TheWordFactory · 09/02/2015 06:28

OP loans for university often do not even cover accommodation costs, let alone eating, books, socialising, travel to and from university.

You will be expected to make up the shortfall. Please don't assume jobs for students are either plentiful or available at the times students are free. Some degrees have heavy time tables.

At one of the universities where I work we discourage working full stop!

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