to move DD from her nice independent school where she has a scholarship because her brother didn't get offered one?

[middleschoolmuddle]

We are not rich but nor are we poor. The school have offered us a 16% bursary for DS - it's not enough.

Would it be mean to move DD to a state school at this stage (Y9)? Has anyone done this?

I can't think straight, my mind is whirring so I'd love some perspective from those of you that have managed to use the local 'good' state schools and pass up the rather nice (best in County) independent one.

house dinners with fabulously talented 6th formers singing as the entertainment
I'm sorry op but that is very far from the norm for most children.
Yes we are all ambitious and would like the best for our children but you have to manage on what you've got. You say that the boys are 'happy enough' with their schools so what's wrong with that?

Ds1 (middle child, now year 4) wouldn't have had a clue about what offering there were in his 'arena' at private schools locally because I didn't tell him

What is the point in having that type of conversation and planting the seed that it might be possible by having him sing for a bursary, when you know that it isn't attainable. It really isn't.

I have 3 dcs. Eldest is at very high attaining single sex state comprehensive. Top sets. Good discipline. Extra curricular opportunities. Free.

Middle child is exceptionally bright. He and ds2 will prob go to different state comprehensive, mixed and not as high achieving, but certainly capable of providing a good education and a range of experiences.

We have no mortgage and larger equity in property. No debts. Our combined income is about the same as your household income. I still don't think we could possibly afford for the dcs to go to private school. Even if I felt they would get a better education (which I don't - comps round here are very good, sounds like your set up too). We are not prepared to mortgage in order to pay for an education that isn't necessarily any better in terms of outcomes. The dc will do well wherever they go. My nieces were all sent to private school from 4-18. Think ended up being not far off 500k spent on their education. They did well, but no better than many of my comp cohort. In terms of a cost/benefit assessment it seems like money down the drain to me.

It's about the school experience, the school day, the civilised eating of lunch, , playing I capture the castle on the green, house dinners with fabulously talented 6th formers singing as the entertainment, high quality music/drama/singing etc etc. Why do people think that these things don't matter to kids. Is it only my kids that recognise quality?

Oh come on! This is snobbish nonsense. Yes, these things are 'nice' extras, but they're hardly essential, will not affect your DC's chance of success in life, and are certainly not worth getting into increasing debt over. Just read that post back to yourself (with a dose of self-awareness this time).

I would take the following approach.

Your DD is in private education because she got a scholarship.
Your DS was unable to secure same scholarship. So will need to go elsewhere. If he had secured the same scholarship he would have joined his sister, but he didn't.

So try get him in to good stage school, music classes, French classes, etc, instead.

How about this for a plan?

Keep DD where she is and continue to pay the remain fees (18K) from the drawdown.

Keep DS where he is for the next year (Y7) as he can stay there due to school reorganisation. Turn down the offer of a bursary but tell school that we may reapply for a place in Y8 should our financial situation change.

Keep looking for a job and picking up bits of contract work.

Reassess in 1 year.

Definitely don't move her, it wouldn't be fair at this stage. And I speak as someone whose sister went to an independent school whilst I hadn't, causing resentment. It's the reason I wouldn't enter my older ones for a sscholarship, that we couldn't afford to pay for a place if younger ones didn't pass the exam. But definitely wouldn't move a child already there.

Yes, it's just your kids who recognise that quality.

Honestly!

Civilised lunches and playing I capture the castle on the green? You feel that that is worth writing off your family's financial security for, leaving you with leaky roof and stress and anxiety about the bills. That's fine if you really really think it's worth it. I think you're mad though.

juneau, yes, they are nice extras, and you are right, they are not essential and perhaps I'm giving them undue weight. But, one thing I do know for sure is that DD is very happy where she is. DS is not miserable at his school, but he is not very happy. Would he be very happy at DD's school - probably.

So it's happiness that is overrated it would seem. They don't need to be very happy at school just as long as they churn out those As and A*s, is that what people think?

Thanks again to you all for keeping me grounded and sharing your experiences. DH and I need to talk (privately), I'll try to remember to update the thread when we make a decision. I'll probably share the thread with DH too and I'll let you know if he has any interesting responses.

she likes the idea of moving to a town. But you weren't going to move until you knew your ds didn't get in! You are totally putting your son at the forefront of any decision you make; please don't.
Speaking from personal experience, you risk permenantly damaging your relationship with your daughter.

OK, people have given you some harsh advice here while still being sympathetic to your desire (which we all share OP) to do the best for our children. However, you are now coming across as some snobbish, deluded throwback who thinks your darling children are so much more special and deserving of private school education than other children. Everyone wants the best for their children, however most people are realistic enough to know that potentially bankrupting your family and placing a huge burden of stress and guilt on your children is not the way to go! I feel sorry for your children in the middle of this.

Don't forget to factor your 3rd child in your calculations........

Oh, and your son won't be happy in a school that he has been encourqged to believe is sub standard and not good enough for him..........

On your income, and with three children, I think you were nuts to turn down dds grammar school place even though it was one term in...
It sounds like you are coming to a good resolution op. I'm sure your dc will do well with your support.

middleschoolmuddle

How about this for a plan?

Do whatever the fuck you want. All of your plans sound equally cloud-cuckoo-land. I did feel sorry for you having gotten yourself into a horrible situation through good intentions but your sense of entitlement to a lifestyle YOU SIMPLY CAN'T AFFORD is irritating in the extreme. If your poor kids need this quality then sell your house and use the equity to pay for it.

But whatever you do, you need to have a think about the thoughts you're putting in your children's heads.

And grow up and stop fucking whining.

What's all this nonsense about civilised lunches and rolling hills in the playground, op?? .

You're justifying why you were desperate to send your ds to the independent school; but are contemplating taking your dd out of this idyllic oasis because he can't go as well? And send them both to the apparently Bedlam like conditions at the state school??
What would a spiteful act like that achieve? She is to be punished because he failed to get a place...

The house dinners & talented sixth formers thing is a bit daft. I suspect a lot of the kids see them as boring events anyway. If that sort of thing is important to you, you can pursue it outside school anyway. State educated ds2 has auditioned for things that have put him in contact with very talented people - the only way a private school would have aided that would have been in getting the time off school approved since the ridiculous rule changes (although we got there in the end).

I understand the having a kid at private school but not being able to afford it. We're in that situation. I looked at moving ds3 at the end of year 4, but decided in the end while we couldn't really afford years 5&6, we could scrape together & manage it & ds3 is happy there. He's also very quiet & shy & we felt if we could manage if he would be better moving at year 7. It wasn't s choice between eating & school though, more doing up the house/me cutting back on work versus school. If if had been a choice of eating he would have moved.

So keep her there until after GCSE's if you possibly can, but FGS move her for 6th form & don't send any other kids there. If you can't afford it you can't. And tbh with feet currently in state & private schools I don't see that much difference. Pros & cons to every school & there's a lot about the state schools we're using that I prefer.

It's about the school experience, the school day, the civilised eating of lunch, , playing I capture the castle on the green, house dinners with fabulously talented 6th formers singing as the entertainment, high quality music/drama/singing etc etc.

^^ This made me laugh.

OP, for what it's worth, I work in one of those schools (not one of the big players) offering the 'independent school experience' and roughly our pupils fall into 3 groups:

1. Those with one or two parents on very high salaries. These are the families with 2-3 children at our school. Children go on all the trips; half-term skying, Politics trip to Washington, Classics trip to Rome - you name it, they go.

1. Those with both parents working full time in 'professional careers' with above average but not very high income. Grandparents pitching in to help pay school fees. Often these are only children or have much younger siblings. They don't go on all the trips (maybe the ones that are relavant for their subjects, eg. Geography trips) and 'only' pay one musical instrument.

1. Those with parents who are seriously struggling to pay the fees. They may have bursaries over x%, but school fees are rising and the parents struggle to keep up. These are the children who wear tatty 2nd hand uniforms that are too small, as buying new is not an option for parents. These are the ones that don't go on any school trips except for the ones subsidised by the school. Sports kit is a difficult area too. The school branded stuff is expensive and if they play in the team, plain kit is not an option. They might be talented musicians, but how crap will they feel if they are the only one from the choir not going on the music tour.

Guess which of the group above actually gets the 'independet school experience' and which group just gets to attend the school? I work in a pastoral role in a house (no fancy house dinners here) and I had 2 pupils disappear after Christmas as the only working parent in the household lost their job.

Think carefully; think very carefully!

PS: In a hurry...haven't proofread the above.

You would be doing your children a favour to teach them to find happiness in what they have at the moment, while setting long term goals for their future. They don't have to give up their goals, but sometimes they have to make a change in the route they take.

Perhaps your son isn't happy because you have influenced him with your views. Children should not have the burdens you're placing on them at this age.

Actually I think people are trying to stress that happiness is very important and churning out the As is the most important thing.

And happiness can be achieved by - no commute, friends living in same town, going out with friends at weekends, shopping for clothes, great family holidays, fun extra curricular activities, family not stressed the whole time about finances etc etc

Happiness is not necessarily about the quality of your school French teacher or how the school runs meal times.

I haven't encouraged my children to believe anything of the sort Hak. They know that all teachers are invested in their learning and that they (the teachers) are all professional people from the same 'pool' essentially. They know (within reason) what is good about the state sector and what can be a drawback in a traditional setting. They are well informed and they have their own experiences for comparison. They like the idea of a selective education, it seems to suit them. They didn't much care for the non-selective private school that they went to for a spell.

Please re-read Butterandcrumpets post a thousand times.

I had the type 3 experience as did my DH. We had no friends in our local town as we commuted to school and it was difficult to socialize with our school friends who a) all lived miles away and b) had much bigger incomes than us so suggested things our parents couldn't afford. We really feel we missed out massively on the development of social skills and friendships.

It is also v obvious to a category 3 child that they are missing out on things other children at the school have. You both want to pester your parents for them but feel guilty as you know what sacrifices are being made to send you there and feel you must achieve. It's no surprise that my school had a lot of eating disorders and a drug problem. They don't put that in the brochure but it's in most private schools if you know where to look.

You say how happy your dd is at school and how important that is - great.

Don't forget how you started this thread...

Aaargh - re-read post - churning out As is NOT the most important thing. wish there was an edit function

How about this for a plan?

Without your husband being enthusiastically on board, it sounds like a plan to build insecurity and collapsability into the very heart of your children's education.

You also need to think more realistically about the potential outcomes should things collapse.

At the moment it's a bit like sitting your kids on the railings of a second floor balcony for the sake of the fabulous view. Convinced that should there be a catalyst that unbalances them ... the network of washing lines from the floors below will catch them and bear their weight.

That isn't a very honest form of risk assessment. There is also the potential for bad bumps and bruises.Or worst scenario actual broken bones. But in order to work out if those risks are worth it, you first have to acknowledge they exist as outcomes that are a direct result of your choices, values and priorities.

OP, you claim you're not putting ideas into their head about the advantages of private education. And yet you come out with statements like this that surely only an adult would say:

They know (within reason) what is good about the state sector and what can be a drawback in a traditional setting.

I mean, really - that's what passes for conversation in your house?

I call bullshit.