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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think giving bus passes and winter fuel payment to JSA cliaments by taking it away from wealthy pensioners is not "punishing pensioners"

183 replies

dhdjdbrjrkbr · 03/02/2015 17:37

I live in a very marginal constituency, lib dem won by narrow margin.

Anyway I wrote a long letter to all the parties I'm thinking of voting for.

Mostly they ignored the points I raised and pointed to useless policys like help to buy (that just exasperates the problem).

However the Tory guy said re bus passes and winter fuel payments he called it "punishing pensioners" to not give them universally.

The rest of the letter was bland crap, but this point really annoyed me. When I was on JSA luckily I had support from my family to get through, but I really needed them and it was very grating when I was often spending more than I got on JSA On buses to hear pensioners talking about their cruises or extensions.

OP posts:
drudgetrudy · 04/02/2015 12:38

No -it isn't unacceptable to quote polls-do you have the figures?
I'm just getting annoyed by the stereotyping.
As soon as someone sees I'm over 60 are they assuming that I'm a smug Tory voter who is not concerned about Youth unemployment etc but just wants to feather my own nest.
There is a lot of stereotyping on here.
Many of you seem to know middle class, well off, Tory voting pensioners and are extrapolating from that.
The Greenham Common Women are pensioners now.
The striking miners are pensioners, the hippies are pensioners as are the Thatcherites and their ilk.
A diverse group.
I understand some of the OP's points about unfairness but some of the comments about the older generation are unfair.
Were the next generation all yuppies?
I think stereotyping on the basis of age is being accepted in a way that stereotyping on any other basis (gender/race etc.) would not be.
I believe more women vote Tory than men.
Does that mean we can say "Women support Tory policies"?

keepitsimple0 · 04/02/2015 12:45

No -it isn't unacceptable to quote polls-do you have the figures?

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jameskirkup/100264789/old-people-tend-to-vote-tory-but-they-cant-put-david-cameron-back-in-no-10/

almost a year old though.

drudgetrudy · 04/02/2015 12:51

Bastards Grin

Still quite a lot of us that don't though!

DidoTheDodo · 04/02/2015 13:15

I'd almost be a pensioner (but my pension age got raised by 6 years) and I don't vote Tory.
There's one less for you!

keepitsimple0 · 04/02/2015 13:16

That's actually not the biggest problem (older people voting tory). The problem is that older people are far more likely to vote than younger people. So, ALL parties send goods to the older, or don't cut them when cuts are coming down.

drudgetrudy · 04/02/2015 13:19

Oh, checked it out-women's voting patterns have changed. Women are now more likely to vote labour-sorry.

DidoTheDodo · 04/02/2015 13:21

Isn't part of the assumption here that younger people have the opportunity and or ability to improve their situation...better job, promotion, moving up the career ladder (and I realise some of this may be hypothetical for some people) whereas the majority of pensioners are stuck in their present situation, whatever that may be?

drudgetrudy · 04/02/2015 13:22

Well then, the solution is for younger people to vote and become politically active rather envy pensioners.
To be fair to OP she did attempt to do that.

Andrewofgg · 04/02/2015 18:37

Just remember that being older is the one thing we all want to be - and act accordingly.

Original poster
dhdjdbrjrkbr · 04/02/2015 21:56

I don't think there is anything wrong with envying people that have had it much much easier.

OP posts:
PtolemysNeedle · 04/02/2015 21:59

They had it easier in some ways, not all.

Envy is a pointless emotion anyway, especially when it just causes you to feel such anger or resentment about something you can't change.

drudgetrudy · 04/02/2015 22:13

Reading your first post it is not unreasonable OP-but your general attitude to older people in subsequent posts is unreasonable.

Original poster
dhdjdbrjrkbr · 05/02/2015 06:25

On the whole though, with the big things - education, housing, jobs and health service the boomers did have it far far better.

Anyway I know who I will be voting for, and will encourage all I know to cast their vote. Its the only hope for change.

OP posts:
Floisme · 05/02/2015 07:15

Not necessarily education - I know there are probably grammar school fans on here but most kids ended up in secondary moderns. I never hear of any campaigns to bring them back - wonder why.
If you mean free higher education, yes of course - provided you were one of the 6% who got there.

Housing and jobs - yes I agree.

Health - not so sure. If you got cancer, they sent you home to die.

You didn't have such a great time either if you were gay, black, Irish or even female.

Of course some things were easier but some things are better now.

tobysmum77 · 05/02/2015 07:56

It isn't about envy. If someone posted that dh and I shouldn't get child benefit because of our joint income no one would bat an eyelid.

they brought up children without any state help well apart from universal child benefit, free education, free health care. Most people now surely do the same?

This area needs looking at in total. Not least to ensure that those pensioners who are not getting what they should do. It must be possible to have a universal system that calculates all properly. To separate out a couple of things as 'too expensive to means test' is not looking at the bigger picture.

woollyjumpers · 05/02/2015 08:28

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woollyjumpers · 05/02/2015 08:32

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Preciousbane · 05/02/2015 09:11

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woollyjumpers · 05/02/2015 09:49

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tobysmum77 · 05/02/2015 10:08

woolly jumpers yes I think it's an interesting argument in relation to universal benefits. Noone mentions education, health care etc it's somehow accepted they are there regardless of how rich you are. But a small amount for fuel and everyone jumps up and down.

Don't most people these days raise children without tax credits? Perhaps I'm terribly out of touch.

woollyjumpers · 05/02/2015 10:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dogelove · 05/02/2015 10:30

No. I think it should be an equal right for all pensioners.

Just like we provide free education for all children, regardless of how wealthy their parents are.

Isolation is a huge problem amongst many pensioners, and the vast VAST majority who would be affected by things like this AREN'T rich enough to order a taxi every time they need to go to the shops. Cutting out bus passes would basically force more people to remain at home and see no-one for days on end. Many pensioners have health conditions which makes them incapable of driving.

keepitsimple0 · 05/02/2015 10:35

AREN'T rich enough to order a taxi every time they need to go to the shops. Cutting out bus passes would basically force more people to remain at home and see no-one for days on end.

why a taxi? Doesn't it just make them pay for the bus?

Oldsu · 05/02/2015 13:16

We have a situation where I live, the local council in a cost cutting measure are looking at withdrawing funding for some bus services, these are routes that the bus companies deem 'unprofitable ' and they are unprofitable because they are routes mainly used by the elderly using their passes.

Now should this happen, there will be a lot of elderly people who will have passes they cant use because there are no buses for them to use them on.

Now you speak to any pensioner and ask, would they prefer a free pass and no buses, or a bus service and that they pay a token amount to use?

Most of them would choose paying a small amount to keep the service, however, the Government will not allow this to happen as they are committed to the fee bus pass scheme.

keepitsimple0 · 05/02/2015 13:56

Most of them would choose paying a small amount to keep the service, however, the Government will not allow this to happen as they are committed to the fee bus pass scheme.

That's unfortunate, but that's what makes scheme like this a bad idea.