to think giving bus passes and winter fuel payment to JSA cliaments by taking it away from wealthy pensioners is not "punishing pensioners"

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I live in a very marginal constituency, lib dem won by narrow margin.

Anyway I wrote a long letter to all the parties I'm thinking of voting for.

Mostly they ignored the points I raised and pointed to useless policys like help to buy (that just exasperates the problem).

However the Tory guy said re bus passes and winter fuel payments he called it "punishing pensioners" to not give them universally.

The rest of the letter was bland crap, but this point really annoyed me. When I was on JSA luckily I had support from my family to get through, but I really needed them and it was very grating when I was often spending more than I got on JSA On buses to hear pensioners talking about their cruises or extensions.

yabu - pderhaps you should realise that it would actually cost more to do the means testing.

It is true that there are a lot of pensioners who have done well through being able to buy housing that has gone up massively in value, but at some point, our generation will be pensioners and we haven't done quite so well out of inflation. But if we attack pensioners now, we have no chance of benefitting when we are older. As long as we live long enough, we will all get a state pension, unlike most other benefits. I think that's a good thing, it means that if we contribute, we know we will benefit.

Pensioners can't do anything to increase their earnings, they are literally powerless. It's no wonder really that they vote in high numbers, there isn't all that much else they can do.

YABU. To me this is very similar to the recent shitstorm about Katie Price and her son, Harvey. I am by no means a fan of hers but ultimately, why shouldn't she be able to access the tax-payer funded help her Son needs when she's paid a fortune in taxes over the years. It's exactly the same situation here.

I hope to be fabulously rich when I retire, here's to hoping I will probably still use my free bus pass to meander round the towns enlightening these young'uns about how things were in my day FYI, that's a joke sort of, I'm 24!

My PIL have two properties and are currently on a 12 week cruise. It galls that they should be receiving these benefits and I din't see how anyone can argue otherwise tbh

Of course it's another naked envy and resentment of pensioners thread. I didn't expect anything else when I opened it really.

Do you find it equally as galling when someone who claims child benefit or child tax credits has something that is considered a luxury JackShit?

What about people who get income support? Should they never be allowed anything over the bare minimum either?

We currently let people choose not to work or work little. People even can buy a second home using the money they get from tax credits as we've seen on MN yet pensioners should be the ones penalised?

I would absolutely agree with you if it weren't for the fact that (apparently) it costs more to do the means testing than would be saved in people then not being entitled to wfa.

My parents get bus passes and wfa.

My mum wouldn't be caught dead on the bus, my dad has just bought a new jag. They go on holiday at least 8 or 10 times a year, lots of them to "escape the cold weather".

So no, I do not think they are in the least bit entitled to government help. My dad was a higher rate taxpayer but my mum hasn't worked since 1975

Sooty and Ptolemy I don't think your points stand at all.

I'm not talking about taking away their 50 inch telly because they shouldn't have nice things when they're on state help.

I'm talking about taking £100 off someone who wouldn't notice the difference and giving it to one of the many groups who have been properly penalised by this government.

If you only give these benefits to means tested pensioners then quite a few pensioners will lose out.
At Christmas my 84 yo widowed Dad was in tears because he couldn't afford to buy presents for people, he gave up work in November - yes you did read that right he gave up WORK, finally got too old and knackered to continue with his min wage cleaning job.

He wasn't claiming any means tested benefits because no-one told him he was entitled to them, he thought he had only his state pension to live on, and was using his meagre savings for his rent etc.

OK we soon got him sorted with pension credit, council tax credit and housing benefit but the point is that if we hadn't found out he would still be struggling to survive and pay all his bills.

I would rather a 1000 wealthy pensioners got these benefits then have one poor pensioner losing out because they are not on means tested benefits, not because they have too much money to claim, but because like my Dad they don't know they can.

Don't be daft. My PIL have 4-5 luxury holidays per year. They are minted. Good on 'em, but BENEFITS should be going to people who NEED them, not the affluent. I can't see the argument tbh.

But to take it off someone who wouldn't notice the difference would mean means testing in a completely different way to how pensioners are already means tested if they need to be, and as has been pointed out, that's not cost effective.

You could take it off the wealthy pensioners that genuinely wouldn't notice the difference, but there would be nothing left to give the other groups anyway.

There's another thread running about older people who drive when they should give up. Free travel is one way to persuade them that the time has come, which is to everyone's good.

Could you ask Tory guy why it is not OK to "punish pensioners" by means testing, yet it is perfectly acceptable to "punish" parents.

Andrew - the same OP.

Just who are all these pensioners driving big cars and going on holiday 8 times a year and why are none of them related to me?

I have some friends who are already retired; the ones who received lump sums spent the money on their kids - helping them buy houses, pay off debts etc. They were happy to do so but they don't have much left over for luxury holidays. I'm sure they'd love to know where they've gone wrong.

Thos pensioners who were SAHMs and did not pay tax, are the ones who now have a very small,pension. Many of them are Saving the state a fortune by caring for elderly relatives

ilovesooty I had not noticed that. Bizarre!

Exactly Ptolemy, and I did mention in my previous post that unfortunately means testing it isn't cost effective.

These are, though, the same pensioners who have seen on average a 250% rise in house prices, the stock market (in the main) on the up and up, gold plated pensions, jobs for life, free grammar schools and university education....

No, I wouldn't feel too bad seeing the top slice having its wfa and bus passes taken off them.

80 year olds sat eating cold beans in front of a one bar electric fire, now they can and do receive help, as is right and just.

Let's face it, this generation will be spending a long old time sat about eating beans under a blanket to keep warm. No property, no job for life, no pension, work until 75....

And the few pensioners that were SAHMs not paying tax are not going on luxury holidays paid for by anyone other than their own husbands.

Any pensioner who goes on 5 holidays a year to exotic locations whilst watching their children and grandchildren struggle with basics is a mean t**t.

I'm a pensioner and agree that winter fuel allowance should be means tested and possibly restricted to over 80s and those on attendance allowance.
Bus pass-not so sure-since people are saying on other threads that some pensioners should not be driving.

florentina a lot of those SAHMs are able to SAH because partners worked and could afford to run a house on one income. Do you think those partners will have been fur lining their private pension whilst letting their spouse be content with the bog standard state pennies ?

My mum was that SAHM who hit 60 and got her meagre state pension payout - a few grand, which she opted to have in a lump sum. She took us all to Spain . No need to worry when there's a big private pension scheme, property, savings and a stock market portfolio....!

Let's face it, this generation will be spending a long old time sat about eating beans under a blanket to keep warm. No property, no job for life, no pension, work until 75....

All the more reason why we shouldn't be attacking today's pensioners!

I don't believe that we won't get state pensions, all we ever hear from governments is that they will protect pensioners, and rightly so. No government is going to scrap the pension any time soon same as they're not going to willingly hand over the keys to number ten to the opposition any time soon.

The question is not will we get state pensions, but how much will that pension be? If it will support anything other than bare subsistence then I'm a monkeys uncle. And the rhetoric will be "you knew it was coming, you should have saved".

There's going to be fuck all state sympathy for anyone who hasn't managed to put aside £££££s before they're 70.

Good point fiorentina carers of all kinds save the government a fortune they would otherwise have to pay out.

And to the poster who said I was against tax avoidance, I am not. But the law should be changed to make it illegal, as it is costing the country literally billions in revenue.

I don't think you can compare corporate tax avoidance with bargain shopping. I do take advantage of bargains in shops, mainly because it does not require setting up a separate household in a tax haven and pretending to do all my shopping from there. If it did I am sure I would be wondering if it was really honest behaviour.