to not want to speak to DM at all after this? MH related.

[TheOrchardKeeper]

Loooong story. I've had depression for years on/off. I can handle it and do go to the GPs the second I feel it coming on. I have been in hospital twice since I was 13 (now 20s) and as a parent myself I understand she is just worried etc.

Sooooo last night, as per usual, I had my phone on silent, and missed one call so she rang again and sent texts, saying I was out of order for worrying her (she seems to think I will off myself with DS in the house which is insulting as even when I have been very ill I've told her I'd never do something so selfish and dangerous to DS). And then sent another saying I'm ungrateful etc. I read all this earlier today and was really upset and have had enough as it's been a years long issue. I've bitten my tongue because I know she means well and doesn't "get it". When I had food poisening and called her in the night a few weeks back because I was worried I was seriously ill/too ill to look after DS alone (we live alone) she shouted down the phone about it probably being a mental health thing/dramatic thing and I left it at that.

Anyway, I sent her this, this morning: ^I wouldn't ignore you on purpose or randomly off myself with DS in the house. My phone is always on silent and I've told you that before, sorry. I don't think you realize how insulting it is when you imply I'm being manipulative or doing things on purpose. Like when you asked if that food poisoning was a mental health thing. Don't worry about this weekend. Not in a stroppy way, I just need some space. I get you worry but you don't listen when I explain the above stuff. I don't expect to be babied but you can be pretty insensitive about this stuff. Sorry".

To which I got: phones always on silent wow didn't realise was 100 PC of time.... And u have have had MH probs and I was only caring / being caring coz I love you ! Ok u don't want to talk to me and think it's ok to be nasty to me ,. Fine !!! u don't want my help and want to just let me worry ... Take care

And then: Well ur timing and style was impeccable !!! That was pretty nasty how u did that ... Why didn't u talk to me??? What's the bloody matter with you !! Bloody immature .... And ungrateful really . . No more txts I've had enough of this shit if u can't talk to me nicely and have to treat me like that I guess it's best u don't

I know I've upset her and feel bad but I can't take that attitude to it anymore. And I missed out lots more stuff that I felt like saying but didn't to try and not make it seem like an attack but now just wish I'd told her everything.

Is it bad to just leave it? I can't even face a shouting match right now. If I'd upset DS as much as she'd upset me I'd want him to tell me, even if it hurt. I'm taking DS out to distract us in a bit. What a bloody morning

Dollies = Dollius sorry

Another thing she does is EVERYTIME she's had DS. I mention I'm feeling exhausted etc and she insists and insists because she just wants to help & that's very kind etc but then she tells me how tired she is just before and makes it a big thing etc. I'll even say "oh don't worry about having DS then" to which she says no no, its fine. Then after she says it was fine she's happy to do it again, she loves to help etc..repeat cycle. I don't let her have him much anymore because I don't like being made to feel that guilty but it's always struck me as a weird martyr thing.

Sorry to hear that 123. I think getting older and DS being older is making me see out relationship in a new light. I'm much more independant than I was a few years ago and I now know that it's not just her "being a parent". I wouldn't be like that. She's not as unable to control it as I used to think.

I posted because I couldn't find a specific thread like this when I searched and could not tell at all if I was being a bitch/immature and needed some outsider opinions. Less contact is certainly a good start.

I know what you mean about feeling like "it's not that bad", I'm the same, but I really do think it's because we are used to it.

Surely it shouldn't be this stressful or guilt inducing? I don't know, I feel like if my mum had more of a life herself, she wouldn't be ringing me all the time, or wanting to visit ans stay for a few days.. but because she isn't having a great time then she think's I'm unreasonable by having an issue with it.. I'm very introvert and like my space, so is my boyfriend..

Ah well, a good moan about it all helps I think! I often wish I was more ignorant like my sister, seems it's water off a duck's back for her, going to try harder to be like that.

Agree with all that. But then I only know one other person who has as a similar parent and we often joke about it but have also called each other when we've been really upset by them. I'm very guilty of making a joke/"funny" anecdotes out of her behaviour actually.

It does help to talk about it. It feels like such a repressed thing though. It's made me uncomfortable/upset on/off since I was 9 but I've rarely spoken about it or even paid it much mind. I remember her taking me on a drive when I was 11 and telling me she was going to divorce her then husband (my step dad of 4 years, I didn't mind much as we never bonded but I knew my brother would be gutted) and she took me to view a house. At the time we were all living together and only me and her knew for a WEEK before she finally told him. She should never have put that on me. I understand she was isolated as we'd moved away from friends/family to be with him but she could've phoned someone instead.

No seriously, she's a terrible mother and a nasty person. This is not you or your fault!

It's all emotional stuff rather than anything tangible, which is the most confusing part as it's hard to see it clearly.

If anything I think she was much better when we were very small. Before I hit 8 ish. Then it was like I became a mini-adult.

Oh the similarities OP! I too have been taken on drives where I'm expected to counsel her on her every problem relating to either my father, her health, his behaviour, various people, where she should live, her house (they're mortgage free & ££££££) it goes on. I don't need to hear it. She is more than twice my age so more than capable of sorting her life out. She was very bossy at home as a mother not much affection and lots of 'punishments' and moods wings in the house. I live far away from her though thankfully and feel I have more control over when I choose to visit. My own family is what I focus on it is most important now that I have finally put in a boundary between what she says to me & how I interpret it or choose to act on it that is key - you actually have the control and the choice on whether to take on board her bullshit. Which is what it is. Really.

Yy that the emotional stuff is very very confusing. It's like watching a play at the theatre but not knowing how it will end. Very unpredictable, very unsettling. But the trick is to detach and each day detach yourself a little further - emotionally closing the lid of her box a little bit more each day. Takes courage & strength tho

123 you are very welcome.

I haven't read all the posts but have you considered that you Mom may have undiagnosed mental health problems herself. She may also be aware of what she's like and feel some responsibility for how things are for you.

Go a little easier on her.

(If I can't get hold of my daughter I panic, (three suicide attempts so far), sometimes I get angry (frustrated).

Just because you said you won't do anything with your child around, can she really be sure. You're her child - it's hard when you can't help make you children better.

Just a different point or view.

momto2teens No matter how worried you were, would you really send texts like Well ur timing and style was impeccable !!! That was pretty nasty how u did that ... Why didn't u talk to me??? What's the bloody matter with you !! Bloody immature .... And ungrateful really . . No more txts I've had enough of this shit if u can't talk to me nicely and have to treat me like that I guess it's best u don't. ? Especially if you thought your daughter was feeling particularly vulnerable?

That's the exact opposite of someone who is concerned and wanting the best for TOK in my book.

Mom2two: not sure I can see your logic here. If anything the DM is the main consistent source of anxiety and game playing in OP's life. Root cause of many ills. DM behaviour inexcusable and not to be pitied.

I can see what you mean mom2. I'm sorry you've experienced that. It must be horrifying as a parent. It has scared her and I don't doubt that, more so I think because she doesn't get it and has never been ill. She's said as much. But I've not given her any reason to think I'd manipulate her because of the bloody MH issues. Or to think that I get a kick out of worrying her/worrying other people (she's suggested that before, it's not the first time).

And tbh if I really thought someone was going to kill themselves and knew they struggled with guilt and feeling like they were terrible and the world was better off without them, I would never then tell them that they were in fact nasty and ungrateful. At least not at a time I believed they were ill. So I don't fully buy that it's ok to talk to someone like that under the guise of it being 'because I just care'. That's what I'm finding the hardest to swallow since yesterday. I can't actually believe it. It has made me feel really sad, to think she'd rather throw my health back in my face than even consider that she'd really upset me. I've heard nothing since the lunch suggestion (there is always a 'oh come on lets forget about it' in my family. Very stiff upper lip, sweep it under the rug, it's not just DM who does that).

Well I do usually forget about it, or at least act like it. Because it's too much trouble not to. But whether I'm being OTT or not I am gutted at some of the things she said, and it's brought up so many things that I forgot at the time.

What confuses me the most is that she says she cares and seems to in her own way but when I do tell her i'm really struggling she sweeps it under the carpet. I told her I was really scared of how low I was almost 2 years ago, I couldn't sleep, or eat or go one day without having a panic attack and she demanded I went to stay with my DG because she couldn't "babysit" me (and DG is much worse than DM). I stupidly agreed and after one night demanded to be brought back and made an appnt to see teh CMHT when I got back (I ended up being voluntarily admitted which was actually really helpful and I had a lot of CBT there). Dm was furious and said I was faking it and being melodramatic etc and I was being selfish to her and to DS.

But then if I don't tell her and go behind her back and just tell friends or DS's dad (my ex) etc and only ask them for help she gets very upset. I can see why a parent would want to know but I can't see why a parent would behave like that once they did IYSWIM?

I'm just thinking out loud really. Yesterday was the tip of the iceberg. I was just sick of sucking it up because she's my family.

Your Mum is toxic Orchard. She knows all the right buttons to press with you and just because she chooses to not press all of them all the time she has you confused. I bet if you could get a break from her and have support from someone normal, you would feel much much better.

Thanks Gelf I makes me feel mad. I am taking a break. She's not pressuring me into resolving it asap either. She's my blood and she made sure we were fed, clothed etc as kids and she has her moments but that doesn't give her the right to be like that. My last partner turned out to be similar actually! And I felt much better for detatching and then leaving him. It can be very insidious though. I don't know why I didn't draw more comparisons between the two actually. Dm always thought I was being OTT about his behaviour too. I really wasn't. I had to call the police after the break up because he turned up at my house a few times and refused to leave from outside.

......more so I think because she doesn't get it and has never been ill. She's said as much...... (My bolding.)

....but when I do tell her i'm really struggling she sweeps it under the carpet. I told her I was really scared of how low I was almost 2 years ago, I couldn't sleep, or eat or go one day without having a panic attack and she demanded I went to stay with my DG because she couldn't "babysit" me (and DG is much worse than DM). I stupidly agreed and after one night demanded to be brought back and made an appnt to see teh CMHT when I got back (I ended up being voluntarily admitted which was actually really helpful and I had a lot of CBT there). Dm was furious and said I was faking it and being melodramatic etc and I was being selfish to her and to DS.....(My bolding.)

You poor woman. You're just being manipulated - it's all Me, Me, Me from her.

The best thing for you would be to get her out of your and DS's life. (Because she'll start on him sooner or later. Has she tried the 'We better do such-and-such ourselves DS because Mummy isn't capable of it' yet? I'll wager you....)

mom2twoteens I think OP needs to get tougher and go NC, not let her walk over her again! Your situation is different, of course you may feel that way with fear and frustration and this post has probably worried you thinking about how your child's post might read.

But the OPs mum is toxic, narcissistic and just plain been a bitch since she was a small child. I'd also guess she is holds some responsibility for the OPs mental health given her childhood. OP she wants you isolated, it's what toxic people and abusers thrive on.

She's never seemed bothered about isolating me. She's always been an easily angered person.

And she doesn't undermine me with DS but she'll push my buttons and if I get irritated she says I'm still like a teenager and shouldn't be so immature now I have a child etc. But to me, those messages she sent were far stroppier than anything I've said to her in years. But I do usually internalize what she says.

Thank you for the replies. This thread is really helping me not cave in. I'll post on the stately homes thread when I feel more up to it. Still doubting myself with all this a bit. Haven't heard from her since the lunch request at least. I feel weirdly good for not just doing what I usually would though and for posting here. I don't feel as awfully guilty as I usually would. Still sad but it's a weird kind of relief that I didn't know I needed if that makes sense?

....And she doesn't undermine me with DS....

Yet.

I see that you didn't have a father growing up and that your DB is pretty thick skinned towards her. Is he in either of your lives at the moment?

No. He was very violent and a drunk. I have no memories of him luckily.