to ask how on earth you manage to work when you have kids?

[whyareallthegoodnicknamestaken]

Currently just having a look at whats out there in terms of work as i have taken time out to have dc's so have been a SAHM for the past 6 years.
Everyone wants flexible working hours, zero hours contracts, People willing to work weekends..
Dh is away for work quite a lot and works odd hours, I have no one to drop off or pick up dc's from school. Paying for breakfast club and after school club every day isn't cheap..
How on earth do people juggle it? Genuine question. I have no idea how I'm ever going to b a able to get a job.

I worked full time after having DD1, currently on mat leave, but will be returning full time by the end of the year. DH works away most of the week so most drop offs/pick ups/bedtimes etc are down to me. It's not ideal, but we'll manage. Once DCs are in bed I can catch up on housework. When DH is here, he's brilliant and our survival hinges on that tbh.

I think it's easier if one hasn't had a career break. My employer knows me pre-DC, so he knows I'm dedicated to my job, so allows me some flexibility around my family commitments. It's far harder to find a flexible employer when you're starting off on the basis of trying to fit work around family commitments. It's very sad.

interesting re the 12 weeks thing. I wouldn't consider it lucky to work somewhere where they openly discriminate against women on maternity leave regardless of the pay. I also don't think it's normal, I know no one who did this, it must just be some industries.

That said I think it is true that it is much easier to get flexibility if you keep your job. Keeping job also helps with paying for childcare as you need to be well paid.

I honestly wonder how it would be in my situation.
My dh is in a very senior consuming job in London. Leaves at 6.18 (exactly!) has a 1.5 commute to work. Then works 12 hours, lunch at desk, constant, no opportunity for anything house or family related (we have a five min conversation every day, at same time, as he walks to and from the coffee machine). He gets home at 9.10pm.
We have no family around us at all.
What child care option would be available to us? I love being a sahm, but in any event, I can't see another option. Unless my dh gives up his job, which would be utterly foolish as I couldn't hope to earn even a fraction of what he does.

Enjoying you'd have to get a job and put the children in wrap around car. Many people work demanding jobs with long hours and not enough to allow one parent to give up work.

In your situation I wouldn't work tbh! I'm finding it harder now we don't have a nanny and my eldest has started school. I do four days a week in a stressful job and my DH does five days also in a stressful job. But being public sector, we are not valued so my earnings have fallen.

I was just lucky, although a single parent. Went to work part-time once the youngest, DD2, went to school (after 12 years as a SAHM) and fitted hours in with school pick-ups. My hours went from three mornings to five, then to each day from 8.30 - 2.30. Finally, when the youngest was 12, I worked full time and she went to a friends or did after-school activities 2 afternoons a week.

I managed to get 10 weeks holiday a year through negotiation with my boss and colleagues and they were fine with it (very small team and our salaries were "tailored" to suit i.e. my colleague earned more than I did but I had more holiday entitlement).

From the time my youngest was five, I worked for the same employer, who completely understood about time off when children are sick, as did my colleagues. I didn't earn a high salary but worked in an extremely interesting, dynamic and sometimes very stressful environment - the team operated within a large organisation but with its own working conditions.

I retired last summer but have been lucky enough to get another, part-time job in a different team in the same organisation. Like some of us here I have had some terrible times in life but my working life for those 14 years was part of what kept me going.

I had a divorce settlement all those years ago which enabled me to buy a house so, again, I didn't have huge financial pressure. Ex took something far more precious than money with awful, psychological repercussions which affect me very badly still. Work was an absolute pleasure compared with the rest of life!

Why do so many of the husbands on the thread earn so much more than the wives and the wives are so sure there is no chance they could ever earn what the husbands do?
A lot of women earn more than their husbands and work full time but not so much on this thread.

Isn't it a bit of a vicious cycle Jilly?
Women take time out of work for maternity leave, so they don't get a pay raise for the year(s) that they take out. So they end up a couple of years behind the curve.

Also, quite often the caring 'default' is the woman, so if a child is sick then women take the time off. This sort of thing might affect performance at work come pay review time.

Many give up their job entirely to stay at home then their earning power is further affected when they choose to go back to work.

I think it is becoming more common for the lower paid of a couple to be the one whose career takes a step back and goes part time, regardless of gender.

But we know that girls out perform boys at school, so where does it all go so wrong?! I do think that girls/women need to be more hard nosed about salaries. A lot of men don't give a shit about not being seen as 'nice' and often end up with better starting salaries than we do.

The more men that take advantage of being able to share maternity leave the better. I still think we are looking at decades before things get more equal on that front.

I'll never earn what my wife does, do I care, nope, it's not a competition, more to life than a "Career" or "Work"..

Just managed to rope my ex into looking after our little uns for a couple of days during the school hols.. Just saved us £100..

Jilly Neither of us earn megabucks. We both earn ok salaries although I earn 60% of our income. I too find it quite sad in this day and age so many women say "i could never hope to earn what he does". Having said that, my female boss earns an astronomical amount and her husband is a SAHD. She's an inspiration to me.

Incidentally for me, we were both on far lower salaries when our children were born. Giving up work was not an option for either of us. I was glad then that the decision was taken out if my hands to save me from endless angst over whether I was doing the right thing. Now looking at friends trying to get back into the workplace after 5-10 years out I'm even more glad. It must be really tough trying to enter the jobs market in this economic climate when you're competing against school leavers and graduates without childcare commitments and therefore more flexibility.

I also think that girls tend to go into the lower paid industries - more boys go into engineering, for example.

Ultimately, though, it's an individual choice. I chose my career knowing that it was never going to pay big bucks, but I enjoy it. I also enjoy having time with my family - DH is in a very profit driven industry with long hours, and as a result has missed out on a lot of the DCs lives. That doesn't interest me.

JackieBrambles
I do think that girls/women need to be more hard nosed about salaries.

according to my industry's pay survey, I'm underpaid by around £8k. I keep thinking "oh but I'm fairly well paid and enjoy the flexibility so don't push it", but I need to move away from this thinking don't I?

My DH earns double what I do. Plus bonus. He's an accountant in the city whereas I trained in journalism/communications and marketing and have since moved into web/digital as the industry has changed.

So the nature of the jobs we chose was always going to cause a disparity, kids or not! I'm now part time so earn even less now.

I was crap at maths though so was never going to be able to be an accountant!

I work 4 days a week but my employer is very flexible about which hours these are so I can flex around school hours to some extent. I also use a combination of relatives, reciprocal arrangements with friends, after school and holiday clubs and (somewhat reluctantly) dh to cover school holidays.

It was/is hard - one fall of snow or sick child can throw a massive spanner into the works. Getting dh to shift his thinking and see childcare as a joint responsibility was difficult but crutial (I was a SAHM for 5 years and he'd have been happy for me to stay that way). He was quite shocked to have to plan out all his annual leave in January and kept saying 'what happens if I need to work that week' (my answer: you say you can't), or occasionally ring in and say he couldn't make it cause he was looking after a sick child but I pointed out that its what I and all the women parents in his office do and no-one thinks less of them for it (he works in quite a gender-balanced office/industry which helps).

Definitely You'll!

Its against how we are 'brought up' sometimes. Don't be rude, accept what you are given, be grateful etc etc.

It's that mindset we need to change!

I would certainly think its worth asking, but you need to do your research - get evidence of jobs advertised that are the same or similar that are earning more?

Jackiebrambles
I would certainly think its worth asking, but you need to do your research - get evidence of jobs advertised that are the same or similar that are earning more?

There's a really specific pay survey that splits by region and business size. I may force myself to overcome my embarrassment by reminding myself that women need to break this "grateful" mould you referred to.

I earn more than my DH, hence my working full time. Interestingly, I've always taken the view that salary offers are a starting point for negotiations, which I understand is quite unusual for women.

A few years ago I had to apply for the job I was already in, due to corporate reorganisation. I told my employer that I had no intention of doing any such thing, unless they were prepared to review my package and pay me fairly. Got at 30% pay rise and kept my job. It's frustrating that employers don't just pay people what they're worth, but the fact is many don't so you have to negotiate.

I've always taken the view that salary offers are a starting point for negotiations

That very much depends on the industry. The NHS, one of the biggest employers in Europe for example, does not really do negotiation. As for a 30% pay rise- hahahahahahahaha.

I've always taken the view that salary offers are a starting point for negotiations

You'd be looked at as a loon if you tried this in my workplace. Jobs are strictly graded with everyone on one grade on the same pay- no bonuses, no increments, no company cars. Sarary is as advertised - take it or leave it.

Well yes, the public sector is very different. But in the public sector salaries are transparent, people are paid according to their grade. If you get a promotion you get paid in accordance with the grade applicable to the new job. This applies equally to men and women and is, therefore, fair from a sex equality perspective.

In many private companies, things are much more opaque, you can be expected to work far far above and beyond your position, without reward until you ask for it.

In my case I had qualified in my specialist field and was doing the same work as those around me who were paid nearly twice what I was being paid. My employer had no intention of offering me more, in the hope that I wouldn't ask. And I'm still paid less than my male colleagues who do similar jobs to me, but I can't complain because our job titles are subtly different.

Yes, the private sector is very different - but even then, it varies from company to company, role to role (DH works in private practice, the juniors staff, for example, have little or no room for negotiation, irrespective of gender)

When DCs were little we paid for childcare - that more or less ate up all my salary. When they started school I switched to part time/reduced hours (short days) working. Most of our annual leave is taken juggling holiday cover between DH and me. You just make it work... If we have emergencies I am usually in a more suitable position to take (unpaid if need be) leave at short notice. DH does when he can.

I returned to work after 7 years as a sahm. When I stopped work dh and I had similar salaries, after 7 years, of course his salary was going to overshadow mine. I returned to work on a lower salary than I'd have liked. It hardly made working worthwhile after I'd covered the cost of an afternoon nanny. But it became clear to my employer after a few months of delivering good work ( finally getting back into the swing of working after a dodgy start!) that I was clearly more senior/able than the job I'd been hired for. Within a year, after proving myself, my salary was up and my hours were down - to four days a week. Now 2 years later, I look back with relief that I managed to get back into the workplace after so long off. The reality is my boss would rather have me there four days than lose me. We manage teh morning breakfast club school drops offs between us and have a p/t after school nanny, who is a local grandmother (not ours, no family nearby; but we're lucky we get to rent her!) to help after school.

After several years out, this is the risk you take. Those jobs which fit in around school hardly exist; cvs with huge gaps on them are not attractive when compared with live CVs. I've certainly had to sacrifice time with my children. But, to return to a career, as opposed to taking a job; women have to accept they are unlikely to be at the school gate x2 day, or changing their kids for ballet. It took me a long time to mentally accept I would have to step out of my new life to resume a career (hence 7 years off!) but it really was more of a mental barrier than a practical one. I deliberately kept my old work network warm, checked in with people from time to time and had to actively remind people I was available and seeking work. They assume you are not interested in opportunities when you have been a sahm for ages. But even then it took most of the year to secure a job.

That dh shares responsibility is a given. He is relieved to see the rewards of my work too - it takes the financial burden off him. This was a surprise to me - it was not apparent when I was a sahm.

I would urge people to focus on finding the right job opportunities and then fit the childcare around it; waiting for a job to fit in with the school run will take you on a hiding to nothing.

Why do so many of the husbands on the thread earn so much more than the wives and the wives are so sure there is no chance they could ever earn what the husbands do?

Because in my instance, I worked to live. Would work quite a strict 9-5, with an hour lunch. A lot of evening socialising. Then I fell pregnant and decided not to return. I was 28 and on >£50k a year, so not bad, and I was about to accept a big promotion. However, not in the same scale as my DH and I would never have reached that level.

My DH works like a dog and Is formidably intelligent.

That is why I will never earn what he earns, especially now I have been out of the work place for 5 years.

It's hard, I've recently returned from maternity leave and now work 3 days a week. My twins go to nursery from 7.30am to 6pm and I work 9am to 4.30pm as my commute is 1.5 hours. Drop off isn't too bad but I have very little margin for delays in my return journey home which makes it pretty stressful most days. Both DH and I commute into London and travel costs around £800 a month for the pair of us. This combined with the nursery costs means that at present whilst I am working we are not better off financially. I am almost counting down the days until they get their 15 free hours and will be ecstatic when they start school and we "only" have to pay for breakfast and after school club.

My Dh has lots of quals relevant to his field...inc a degree.
I don't.
I left school after a levels in the last recession in 1991 and did several office/admin jobs as that's all I could get.
The most I have ever earned is £12k PA full time.