to think sharing explicit anti-meat eating photos on Facebook is completely abhorrent and unnecessary? [Title edited by MNHQ]

[WiiUnfit]

I'm sat here eating a naice ham sandwich, scrolling through & minding my own business when WHAM, a picture of a sleeping puppy being carved like a joint of meat on my newsfeed. Poster is an old school friend and a (recent) vegetarian.

I mean seriously, I don't share photos of great big juicy steaks to promote my status as a meat-eater?

I tried the Vegusto cheese when I first became vegan and came close to throwing up. It was really strong and smelt like cheesy feet. I think I could probably handle it now as I've forgotten how dairy cheese tastes.

I quite like the Tofutti Mozarella style cheese slices melted on pizza etc. I also use their smooth 'cream cheese' for spreading and making cheesecake with.

Thanks for that... I was close to ordering some ??, I'll hold off and do some more research x

Also I know its a natural thing to want to replace something you like with something that tastes the same, but ultimately I think that makes it easier to just slip back when you can't get the replacement if that makes sense..

I think the answer is to avoid replacements altogether after first giving it up. Your tastebuds are acclimatised to the dairy version and replacements never taste even close to what you are used to.

I've found that replacements that tasted rank a year or two ago are now far more palatable, even delicious!

I've heard that nut-based cheeses are really good but haven't yet tried them. I was never a big cheese eater so I don't particularly miss it. There are some artisan nut cheeses that people rave about and I keep meaning to try them but they are soooo expensive.

If you are on Facebook then the group What Fat Vegans Eat is really good for recipe inspiration. It ranges from beans on toast to some awesome restaurant quality meals. You don't have to join unless you want to comment, all the posts are public.

www.facebook.com/groups/194567900666819/

I think you're right.. It just makes it harder
I will look that up. Thank you :)

Violife is the nicest vegan cheese I've tried, I couldn't stomach the others - stinky feet is a very accurate description fight !

It's nice to see the hysteria has died down now and now there is rational debate and maybe 1 or 2 new vegans

Out of interest, if you avoid substitutes, what sort of things do you eat? I think it reflects how much meat and dairy products are a part of my diet as I can't imagine cutting them out, I'm not sure what I'd eat, so I'm just curious :)

There are loads of things you can use instead Moomin. We do sometimes use substitutes for convenience but things like chickpeas, lentils and nuts are very cheap and easy to cook with and packed with protein too. I can post some recipes if you're interested?

The typical British diet does tend to be all based around meat which makes veganism a really difficult concept to get your head around at first but it's nowhere near as difficult as people imagine.

Thanks for the offer caked, I think for now I'm going to try and gradually phase out meat and see how I get on with vegetarianism first with a view to going vegan later on. I seem to have issues absorbing iron as I'm pretty much permanently anaemic, how does a vegetarian/vegan diet work with getting enough iron?

I think the only place I can really see myself having issues with going veggie is eating out; mushrooms make me ill and I can't stand nuts. At home won't be such an issue I don't think.

It's nice to see some other non judgemental and sensible vegans on here! I am about 99% vegan! but find many other vegans where I live and on Facebook to be incredibly tiresome and preachy. In fact, they put more people off veganism rather than promoting it! I have a vegan 'friend' who regularly posts stuff on Facebook bashing vegetarians and complaining about them, comparing them to murderers and such like, which is totally ridiculous and it just infuriates me no end! I'm of the view that every bit helps and that people will do what they can, so if they are vegetarian I think it's fab that they are not eating meat and I'm really pleased about this. I would never dream of putting vegetarians down for not being good enough.
Also, I think that people who regularly post militant vegan pictures of abattoirs etc also tend to alienate people rather than promote intelligent discussion.

Moomin sources of iron taken from the Vegsoc website:

"Pulses including chickpeas, lentils, kidney beans and tofu. Sprouted beans and seeds such as aduki beans, alfafa and sunflower seeds. Cereals and products such as breakfast cereals and bread. Green leafy vegetables including spinach, kale and cabbage and also broccoli. Nuts, in particular almonds and cashews. Dried fruit especially apricots, dates and raisins. Date syrup and molasses are good sources of iron.

Vitamin C which helps with absorption of iron is present in citrus fruit and juices as well as salad items like sweet peppers, lambs lettuce and tomatoes as well as broccoli and leafy greens."

I use a vegan/veggie supplement from Holland and Barrett every now and then just to make sure I get all my vitamins. My diet is sometimes a bit hit and miss - sometimes really healthy, wholefood diet and other times a bit 'chips and beans'. I do eat a good amount of fruit and veg, I love salad and also make coleslaw using vegan mayo. I can eat buckets of that

I think for now I'm going to try and gradually phase out meat and see how I get on with vegetarianism first with a view to going vegan later on

WOW! < high fives Moomin >

That's brilliant x Don't worry if you 'fall off the wagon', many people do in the early stages - it's a huge change. Just dust yourself off and climb back on x

Well done moonmin! I enjoy aubergine and mushrooms as it gives a meaty taste.

That's fantastic Moomin! You can get all the iron you need from a plant based diet. Lots of cereals are fortified with iron as are many non dairy milks. Dried fruit like raisins and apricots are high in iron as well as the obvious dark leafy veg - kale etc. I try to avoid drinking tea and coffee too close to mealtimes as they can inhibit iron absorption but vitamin c actually helps you to absorb it so a glass of orange juice with your meal should help.

Out of interest, if you avoid substitutes, what sort of things do you eat? I think it reflects how much meat and dairy products are a part of my diet as I can't imagine cutting them out, I'm not sure what I'd eat, so I'm just curious

Your best bet would be looking towards other countries where vegetarianism (or practically vegetarianism) is already the cultural norm and the food isn't just a knock off of meat.

Nearly half of India is vegetarian so you might think of the meat laden food you get from your local but there are MANY great veggy dishes to be had.

matadornetwork.com/trips/5-best-countries-world-vegetarians/

You're all being really mean to OP. I can see where she's coming from, I don't like gore but I eat meat. Cooked meat doesnt look like gore. I'm slowly trying to become veggie. Though I'm constantly fighting with myself about becoming veggie because my family all eat meat and I feel like an outcast.....

I don't think everyone was being really mean to the OP. She was having her AIBU explained to her in bald terms and she did not like it. Neither did others as it offended their omnivorous sensibilities. So, they leapt on the defensive and also attacked Abby. Then FightorFlight came on and explained how telling it how it actually is gets people's backs up and a softer approach tends to work well. Then the OP started talking about reducing her meat intake. Win win.

I believe that if you're omnivorous then you have a responsibility to ensure you eat as ethically as you can and you source animal meat that has had a good a life as possible and if you can't afford it or can't find it then eat plant based and save up or research. That way we will drive down factory and intensive farming and mass death slaughter techniques. Its a consumer led market.

One troubling thing for me is the amount of farmers who use sheep to eat down their crops post-harvest. This sounds sensible, but they electric fence off portions of the field, the sheep live in mud and are forced to eat only whats available which is things like tough brussel spout stalks or cauliflower bottoms. They often appear as if they are injured and limping and not well looked after. I even reported one lot to the RSPCA as a lot of the sheep looked like they had horrific skin infections. This is the nasty side to plant based eating, that you cannot control how a farmer disposes of bi-product. also, some farmers seem to flout regulations for care of sheep.

Can't you see the irony in what you just posted Obsess ? You've disconnected the "gore" from the meat on your plate. You don't want to be reminded of the fact that what you choose to eat was part of an animal that was deprived of anything resembling a life and then killed so that you could eat it. This is reality, people try to kid themselves that there is no suffering or "gore" involved but the meat doesn't magically appear all neatly packaged in the supermarket. The facebook post op objected to was designed to make people think about where their food comes from, no one was being mean in pointing that out.

Again, if it's fine to show a meat-eater a picture like the one mentioned in the OP to "get them to think" then surely you have no problem with the pro-lifers who hold up pictures of aborted fetuses to women about to undergo a termination?

I do not think that is a reasonable comparison CheerfulYank.

I get that (and I definitely think the example I mentioned is cruel and horrible, BTW) but the arguments used by vegans here are the same I've heard anti-choicers use. That the women are disconnected from what they're doing, that the reasons don't matter because whatever the reason is, the end result is the same. Etc.

People are idiots. It's the same as all the pictures of dead babies and abused animals. They're designed to upset but then well meaning idiots will share them because your doing it for poor dead angel babyzzzz and ickle fwuffy puppies. Morons.

Cheerful Yank omnivorous eating of some types of animal but not others because you cannot bear to eat something normally associated with gazing at you with love from a basket in the corner is called selective compassion.

I think if you're going to be omnivorous you should not be judgemental of others eating ickle fwuffy puppies ( btw MoanCollins) or whales etc. Moreover, I do not think omnivores should justify eating animals via stating why veganism is a terrible diet. Studies have shown that there is a direct causal link between eating red meat and developing cancer. Fish are being over fished and many contain high levels of undesirable heavy metals and chemicals (due to what we discharge into waters), cows have their babies removed at 6 days old and, if they're male, killed. Male chicks are killed, laying chickens (even free range) are killed when they have exhausted their usefulness. Animals are involuntarily inseminated. Omnivores (and lacto-ovo-vegetarians) accept all these (and more) practises. Omnivores should be cognisant of all this. You should show responsibility and awareness of what you put on your plate.

If you want to eat meat and fish and consume animal bi-products then fine- but understand origins.

Well said Tied.

I understand that Tied. :) I do try to ear as ethically as possible. We get our eggs from my FIL as I know for a fact he is not doing horrible things to baby male chicks. (That does horrify me, as it should anyone.) And his chickens are happy and out in the air and sunshine.

When we get a freezer that can handle it we will purchase ethically raised beef...the farm that does it by us only sells it in huge amounts.

DH hunts and fishes too so our fish, pheasant, and venison is as organic and free range as can be.

I do wish we could do more. I don't know any sources close by for ethically reared pork. And it's so expensive. But I suppose the more people buy it, the more prices will drop.