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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To raise my eyebrow at DD's school 'punishment'?

135 replies

chaosagain · 28/01/2015 16:22

DD is 5 and in year 1. She had to miss 10 minutes of her morning playtime today after getting a yellow card yesterday and then doing the same thing again shortly afterwards. Her offence: reading a book when she was being asked to do something else/tidy up.

I get that she needs to learn to listen and I also get that it can be important that we (are seen) to support school decisions to her.. but REALLY? Sitting out of playtime is a big deal to her and the first time she's not been on the 'green card' for her behaviour this year. She was going to have this 'time out' with 2 other boys who each had 5 mins for fighting. She was really worried about it this morning, trying to find a way to not go to school etc.

She and I talked about how you just have to face things that are a little bit worrying and understand that there are consequences to your behaviour. The teacher was asking you to do things and you didn't do them. She told me that the book she was reading was just so good that she didn't hear the teacher. I get frustrated by this complete absorption of hers at home, but also recognise that she just doesn't hear me unless I go and make physical contact by touching her hand, shoulder etc.

I don't think this is worth taking up with the school and we should probably help her chalk it up to life experience but I keep thinking: 'can it be right to discipline a child (at 5) for getting lost in a book/for READING?!'

OP posts:
TheTroubleWithAngels · 28/01/2015 18:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Goldmandra · 28/01/2015 18:36

but you making it into a big deal is not helping either you or her

The OP has clearly stated that she has backed the teacher in her conversations with her DD.

There seems to be a strange view on MN that, if you discuss a matter with other adults, you must also be expressing the same opinions to your children.

I'm sure that, in common with most reasonable parents, the OP is capable of wondering if the teacher's actions are appropriate without actually expressing this doubt to her child.

Skatingfastonthinice · 28/01/2015 18:38

We prefer the term 'Free range' Grin

It's entertaining reading posts where weary mummies are collapsing with a stiff gin after hosting a party for their infant with 20 or so dear friends, and saying how dreadfully exhausing it is. And that's with food to bribe them with and activities they want to do.
I do love reception though, they are so egocentric and puzzled.

Noodledoodledoo · 28/01/2015 18:39

If it's something that happens at home as well it might be worth a chat with the teacher. I would go in and let her know there isn't an issue with the punishment but you have noticed she gets engrossed and needs a little more prompting to leave it and see if there was something they could put in place to help it not happen again. Maybe a friend could have the job of checking your daughter is helping or the teacher or if they have a TA make sure she isnt engrossed in anything.

It's not bad behaviour but is a pain in a class of 30. It might be worth giving the teacher the heads up that your daughter 'enjoyed' the punishment at this time of year and in these temperatures I would as well!

Oh and before anyone says its more work for the teacher - I am also a teacher and would happily put things in place to help students not get into trouble - and frequently do.

Also a teacher who has never heard of playtime sanctions are banned!

EugenesAxe · 28/01/2015 18:46

I'm just going to quote Miss Stacey:

"I'm disappointed in you, Anne. Reading novels during geometry class is a misuse of your time. Moreover, it's a deception."

As people have said, misbehaving for doing something that would otherwise be really encouraged... is still misbehaving.

YouTheCat · 28/01/2015 18:47

Eugenes, love that quote. Grin

FrancesNiadova · 28/01/2015 18:55

If the teacher says, "Everybody do this now," then all the children need to do it without too many repetitions of the instruction.
It could be a bomb scare, the mad axe man, the roof fallen in, anything!
The responsible adult has to instil into a large group of children that they follow instructions; it's for their own safety!

Skatingfastonthinice · 28/01/2015 19:06

Most infant classes have a signal of some sort that means stop and look at the teacher. Clapping, bell, shaker...

GretnaGreen · 28/01/2015 19:28

I get frustrated by this complete absorption of hers at home, but also recognise that she just doesn't hear me unless I go and make physical contact by touching her hand, shoulder etc.

Sadly this sort of intervention is not workable in a class of 30+.

I was a daydreamer and an absorbed reader too. I got told off for it too. I learned to pay attention and your DD will too.

Original poster
chaosagain · 28/01/2015 19:32

Thanks Goldmandra, I was airing it here and categorically have not made it a big deal with my DD. It was a HUGE deal to her, she was really worried and upset both last night (but I didn't know what it was about) and this morning. I was trying to get her to see that when you make a mistake (and we all do) in not doing what you should do, you need to face the consequence of that (and not stay at home) and most importantly, learn from it so it doesn't happen again. And then just get on with it.

So, today she didn't get to the carpet by the time the teacher counted back from 5. Her group were due to come to the carpet for maths. Her reason was that as she really wanted him to be pleased with the work she was doing and really wanted to finish the sentence she was writing and get to put a full stop on it. She was listening and didn't do what was asked and we talked about how the maths lesson could never happen if everyone did that.

Turns out it's been a supply teacher the last two days, which makes more sense. I've previously been worried that she's a bit teacher's pet-ish, tbh, so it's odd to see her being given consequences for misbehaving. She's a really determined person who loves school generally and I'd like it to stay that way.

I know you need strict rules and absolutes etc in a class of 30 5 year olds. It just seems a bit like sometimes it could squash the joy out of learning. I wish I had a magic wand and that we started formal learning at 6 or 7 in classes of well under 20 kids!

OP posts:
Skatingfastonthinice · 28/01/2015 19:37

' I wish I had a magic wand and that we started formal learning at 6 or 7 in classes of well under 20 kids!'

Lots of teachers feel the same.
So she's used to a sweetiepie teacher who understands her little ways, and she's had a supply teacher who might well teach in dozens of different schools and have an overview of how Y1 should be in general.
Does the class have a TA who could step in and cushion the harshness of not having Ms Honey? I sometimes check with the TA to see if she thinks little x is misbehaving or not, if it looks like I'm being ignored.

Floggingmolly · 28/01/2015 19:40

I love how this has devalued the whole behavioural system (what the hell is that anyway? Having to follow instructions??) for your dd.
Clearly; since she's in chokey again tomorrow and is refusing to tell you why...

MoanCollins · 28/01/2015 19:46

It sounds to me like the teacher is being consistent and expecting the same standard of behaviour whether it's from the nice tidy little girl who likes reading or the rough boy with a snotty nose. Which is good.

Goodadvice1980 · 28/01/2015 19:50

Well I guess the only plus side is she can now sit indoors reading her book whilst missing play time Grin

KatieKaye · 28/01/2015 19:57

Well, OP - I was that child in a class of 20 at age 7 who loved reading.

And had a teacher whose way of getting attention was to start to quote the books of the Bible, which was the signal for us to clear our desks and then sit their with our hands folded in total silence.
She spoke quietly, no special measures to get our attention - because we were supposed to be paying attention anyway!
And she never got any further than "Justice". Because we knew we had to do what we were told, when we were told to do, with no excuses.
From all you have said, I'm not too sure about how your DD would cope.

Said teacher also had a stuffed duck-billed platypus on her desk. A real (dead) one, not a toy. She was a bit batty eccentric but boy she could keep a class under control without having to raise her voice or tap children on the shoulder.

Hulababy · 28/01/2015 20:09

The 'engrossed in a book' is irrelevant.

Why would being engrossed in a book be an acceptable reason to ignore a teacher's instruction, anymore than being engrossed in some writing, a drawing, a jigsaw, a board game, a maths activity, a learning app in the class iPad, or anything else really?

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 28/01/2015 20:28

Yes YABU. She isn't being punished for reading, she is being punished for not listening and not doing as she is asked.
It seems now too many parents such as yourself to be blunt think it's okay to have a disrespectful attitude toward teachers.

Original poster
chaosagain · 28/01/2015 20:47

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost please tell me how I've shown a disrespectful attitude to teachers because I really don't think I have. I have a great deal of respect for the profession as a whole and my DD's two teachers to date in particular...

OP posts:
ToffeeCaramel · 28/01/2015 20:49

You've just jogged a long forgotten memory from my infant school days op! I was in the last year of infant school in the 70s. The head teacher was in the room with the class teacher and the teacher must have asked us to pack away. I didn't as I was so engrossed in my book, but then realised when they called my name and they sort of laughed and said "We'll forgive her" as they realised it was just I was so engrossed in the book. Smile

feckitall · 28/01/2015 21:46

Hey OP! Have you had a look at or thought of Auditory Processing Disorder...I was a child that was absorbed in books/activities and didn't 'hear'! I was often told I was daydreaming. I had tests done a couple of years ago after my manager kept commenting on it. I was then told about APD.
I don't distinguish sounds so in a noisy room I don't filter voices.
I still struggle with it..I hear volume I just don't process sounds..
I now get into trouble at work for not listening! Grin I have to contend with voices, telephones, tannoys and music...
I need to face people so I get facial clues and ask people to get my attention so I know I'm being spoken to.

ToffeeCaramel · 28/01/2015 22:17

How did you go about getting the tests done feckit?

feckitall · 28/01/2015 22:57

I had auditory tests done at the hospital...

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 28/01/2015 23:03

I feel you have shown disrespect by virtually throwing your rattle out your pram when teacher instill discipline. You did start a thread asking for opinions don't get a strop on when you get them.
I've witnessed disrespectful "Don't you shout or discepine my child". He she can do what they like" parents. Lots of times.
However I do fully agree with you about it being very unfair about your dd losing 10 mins of play time but the boys who were fighting lost only 5 mins, no argument there.

ToffeeCaramel · 28/01/2015 23:30

Thanks feckit. Just wondering as what you were describing sounds like my eldest

PiperIsTerrysChoclateOrange · 29/01/2015 00:34

www.nidirect.gov.uk/sm/school-discipline-suspensions-and-expulsions

Detention is allowed.

I think they work well.