To raise my eyebrow at DD's school 'punishment'?

[chaosagain]

DD is 5 and in year 1. She had to miss 10 minutes of her morning playtime today after getting a yellow card yesterday and then doing the same thing again shortly afterwards. Her offence: reading a book when she was being asked to do something else/tidy up.

I get that she needs to learn to listen and I also get that it can be important that we (are seen) to support school decisions to her.. but REALLY? Sitting out of playtime is a big deal to her and the first time she's not been on the 'green card' for her behaviour this year. She was going to have this 'time out' with 2 other boys who each had 5 mins for fighting. She was really worried about it this morning, trying to find a way to not go to school etc.

She and I talked about how you just have to face things that are a little bit worrying and understand that there are consequences to your behaviour. The teacher was asking you to do things and you didn't do them. She told me that the book she was reading was just so good that she didn't hear the teacher. I get frustrated by this complete absorption of hers at home, but also recognise that she just doesn't hear me unless I go and make physical contact by touching her hand, shoulder etc.

I don't think this is worth taking up with the school and we should probably help her chalk it up to life experience but I keep thinking: 'can it be right to discipline a child (at 5) for getting lost in a book/for READING?!'

Brightideas, I've been a teacher for 20 years, I have never heard anyone claim this before. Missing play has been/is the standard first stage punishment universally.

It is one of the by products of being in a class of children though hackmum - children DO have to follow instructions.

I've worked in several schools, time out is standard practice. At my present school, children stand outside but are not allowed to join in play for 5, 10 mins. OP the reason the boys got 5 is probably because they did it once whereas your DD was told twice.

Missing playtime is standard practice in my experience of working in schools as well.

Bright ideas - who says it is not allowed? Where are these rules written down? And when did they rules change saying this was no longer allowed?

I work in a school currently and in the past have also been a teacher. Never heard these rules at all. Think all the schools I know have forms if time out type sanctions including sometimes losing a few minutes of playtime.

hack, really? You think 30 very young children don't need to learn to pay attention to their teacher?

hack mum, I agree with you.

Toughasoldboots - no, it's not my worry but she noticed it and talked about it, so I worry about the message it's giving her..

It may be that your dd often doesn't follow directions and this is the start of being a bit tougher on her. It could just be snap decision by the teacher, one of hundreds she will make during the course of the day.

hackmum, try teaching 30 children who don't have to listen because they're only 5.

Sometimes the warning is just to get the child to do what they need to, op Any "learning opportunity" inherent in that is incidental.
She didn't need time to reflect. She needed to understand that sometimes you have to do things you don't necessarily want to.

Hackman - the trouble is when you have 30 children in a classroom you do have to have rules which children are all expected to follow. It would be chaos if all 30 were able to just do what they like and not bother listening.

And let's face it - it teaches them skills they will also need in real life. In the work place most people have to follow rules and guidelines and there often sanctions for not following them.

How you teach 30 children in a classroom has to be very different to how you teach one or two children in your own home. Neither system really works in the opposite setting.

chaos, in the long term your DD not paying attention (maybe wilfully so, the teacher doesn't know if they're being unheard or ignored) may be detrimental to her learning or safety. Although it doesn't immediately seem as important as a scuffle, it could turn out to be.

Hackmum, in an ideal world the schools wouldn't have to, because the parents should have done so by that age, However, children slip up, even the ones with parents who have tried very hard, and teachers need to reinforce the message. There is also the larger problem of children from homes where the parents don't bother to make any attempt to instil any discipline AT ALL, and even by the age of 5 children don't understand the concept of listening and following instructions. This level of neglect is child abuse.

What i hear every day at school 10 mins after teacher has given instructions for lesson/learning-" What do we have to do/ What are we doing?" Always from the children who spent the 'listening' time doing their own thing. It wastes soooo much time.

I agree about learning to listen, but I also think we're asking a lot of 5 yr olds. I know you need this to have any order in a class of 30, but there's a reason a lot of European (and other countries) don't start school until 6 or 7.
Also - the punishment doesn't quite seem to have worked. She was really worried about being in trouble this morning and her main learning this afternoon seems to be that it wasn't so bad and she doesn't mind being in time out again tomorrow!

What others have said is correct but I empathise with your eyebrows raising, as the mother of a DS who was banned fron the reading corner in Reception class because he wanted to spend all his time in there. He could already read before starting school and didn't see the need to sit on the carpet with the rest of the class - being taught to read.

I think yabu which you have accepted well. I am intrigued about why she has a further 5 mins though, has she been fighting too

I teach phonics to a group of 5 year olds and I expect them all to listen to me. It is not a lot to expect at all.

chaos- what the teacher is doing will help your daughter, she will learn. You have done the right thing in backing the school up. Most children can sit still and listen at 5 especially if they've been to nursery.

That's awful big blue. I am hate one-size-fits-all approaches to education.

mrsDiesel- she did it twice, 5 mins each.

YANBU, she was engrossed in a book, hardly a bloody crime.
I took my dc out of a school that focused on the negatives and never once praised their positive behaviours.
Since my dc went back to their previous school ( didn't get into reception, over subscribed) there has not once been an issue with their behaviour.
Some schools are like sodding supermarkets, all about targets.
I'm not a soft mom by any means, if my dc is out of order they know about it!
At my dc's previous school they had this red ,amber green thing, it really highlighted children with sen and other parents became aware of that.
At a swimming class ( nowt to do with school) a mom had "words " with my friend about her dc's behaviour; he's got special needs, they really ought to cut these kid's some slack.
I have myself got a problem with processing the spoken word, I'm not daft but I get myself in a pickle. People who know me understand this and make allowances by reiterating information in the written form.
I have only recently understood why they do this; I was classed as a " daydreamer".

Actually people have that idea about European schools because they don't learn to READ til they are 6 or 7 but certainly in France nearly all kids start school at 3, if not 2.5.

And are expected to tidy up etc.

Glad to hear you backed up the school though, ime (as a teacher but not primary), once the parents start contesting the school rules, the pupils take authority in general less seriously.