.. to consider working FT with three children under 5

[harrowgreen]

when we don't need the money and DH has a very demanding job....

DD1 is 4.5, DS 1.11 and DD2 0.1 (4wks).

I was a professional in the City before DD1, but never went back after maternity leave and have spent the last few years working mainly in the charitable sector on a pro bono basis;

We're now done with having children, and I want to go back to work.

I've been offered a job in the profession I used to work in, but it's full-time. We're no longer in London so it's not crazy hours (core of 9-6), but DH is out of the house for at least 13hrs/day, sometimes with overnight travel, so can't help with childcare in a practical sense. So I'd need help getting DD1 to school and DS and DD2 to nursery (they can all start by 8am), and picking them all up. DD1's school offers after-school care until 6pm (for an extra charge) and nursery runs until 6pm also. DS is really settled at nursery already (he goes PT currently) so I wouldn't want to move him.

I can't work out if going back would put our family under intense stress. DH has a very healthy salary, so we don't need the money (it'd cover childcare but that'd be it). I wouldn't go back immediately (I'm EBF and will do until 6m and will then continue to BF for the full year), but likely late summer.

The job would be great, but I'm not sure if it'd be great enough to warrant this huge change in lifestyle for us all. Working PT there probably isn't possible, although some working from home might be allowed.

If I don't take this job I have another option in the charity sector which would be part-time, flexible, mainly from home and give me great exposure. Money would obviously be minimal in comparison but, as I said above, that's not a huge concern. However I'm not sure there'd be the intellectual stimulation of the professional role.

Thoughts?

Hi Harrow - why are we all still awake!

I'm a 4-day weeker but with one day at home and it's a great set up. I think you're in a good position to go in and ask for what you want in terms of flexibility. If you don't ask you don't get, as a friend advised me when I went back.

We have a nanny, though only 2 days (nursery for little ones my other 2 days and bigger child at primary - we have 3.) I think you'll find a full time nanny wage is c£32,000 in south east for full days, inc all tax etc (ours 7.15am-6). But check it out tomorrow-don't want scare you!

But in fact with 2 pre school and 1 at school nanny care is (slightly) cheaper than nursery/after school/hol clubs. And as all have said absolutely less stressful for you (wave goodbye to happy children in morning, come back to happy, well fed children at night, clean laundry, tidy rooms etc.)

Hope this of some help - good luck with your research and decision!

Get a good nanny. Expect to not earn much at first until youngest is in school. At that point get one or two au pairs.

Ah mini pie, you have one. Any more than one makes a real difference to evening, as you would be juggling. And mine are very young, and very tired in the evening, so I don't regard it as the best time to be focused in my children. And I certainly don't see the mornings before 8.15 as holding any possibility of quality time.

However that may change as they grow older (I doubt it though. Mornings were pretty fraught when I was childless!)

Home at 6.30, mine are in bed asleep by 6.50

Good luck with the nanny agencies. As we both worked full time we both found and hired and interviewed nannies - it was not a woman's job even 20 years ago so hopefully men today pull their weight too.

Over the years it varied - at first I stayed until the nanny arrived as my children's father had to leave home 30 minutes before I did and he was home first every day to let her go home. that worked well and ultimately 20 years on I earned 10x what he did so from a female earnings and career point of view that sharing equally of commitment to our both working and dealing with child care went fine. We divided jobs up eg he did 100% of the washing and I bought the food or whatever. Basically make sure it is fair and donm't get saddled with always being the first person to get home at the end of the day as that has more impact on career.

We did find that a full time daily nanny cost less than 3 nursery places and was more flexible, useful if children were sick etc. Also she could then take the oldest to nursery school for the morning and collect at noon and later when they were in "big school" deal with that too.

I have never regretted not giving up work and the children have done fine. In fact my daughters are now lawyers too and having a career in common is good at times for them too - one just changed jobs this week and I think I have been more helpful to her than had I stayed home the last 20+ years in all kinds of ways.

When I was breastfeeding ( I expressed at work) I just about always left work on time so both of us would arrive home around 6 or 5.30 which is very helpful and I would sit down to feed immediately whilst he was on hand to deal with the toddler and 4 year old. It was the same in my parents' day in the 1960s when they had 3 under 6. Just about every night both of them were there and one did bed time stories/songs etc with one of us and the other with the other two.

Harrow - Surely 'If you don't ask.. ' applies to your DH as well and it shouldn't be 'years' before he is in a position to do so. Can I work from home once a week / start later twice a week? I started a full time job and asked to drop 1/2 day after 2 months so I could do school pick-up. There was a trial period and then it was agreed.

I don't need to work for the money, but I don't want to pay to work if childcare is more than my salary would be.

I get what you're saying, but you could view it as an investment in your future. When I went back to work our childcare bill exceeded my income, but we were lucky enough to have some financial help from my Dad , enough to balance the ledger. That made life livable for the first 15 months, after which point DS1 got 15 free nursery hours. Shortly after that I managed to get promoted from training to proper 'job what I do', which came with a pay rise, and in 9 months DS1 will go to school (so no exorbitant nursery fees) and DS2 will drop down to 25 hrs per week, which will improve our financials even more.

At that point I will have 2.25 years in post and will have the flexibility/recent work experience to take a career break if needed, if school logistics prove to not work with a daily London commute. I think that if I'd waited until both kids were in school and then applied for my original training role then it would have been impossible to fulfil logistically, frankly, and I'd have a massive gap on my CV and find it even harder to get into my chosen field.

The result of all this waffle is that a FT job while they're little may give you the flexibility to be PT when they're older and have more complex needs. That's my raison d'etre anyway!

It's in yours and the DCs best interests for you to resurrect your career whilst you still can.

Get a nanny and a cleaner and even if you are 'working for nothing' for a short time you will all reap great rewards in the long run.

I think parents of Young DCs grosdly underestimate how much money older DCs want/demand/need. You will need a lot more disposable income in 10 years than atm. Therefore even if you don't think you need the money now, your teenagers will find plenty of ways to spend it then!

DH and I work FT. We have 2 DS (3.4 and 9 months). I leave at 8am and get home at 7pm. DH does 1-3 hours extra everyday.

Our DSes are looked after by my parents at our home (we pay them like we'd pay a nanny). Without this help at home I could not cope. I can leave DSes in their pyjamas (or asleep sometimes) with/without having had breakfast. If they are ill they can stay home in bed well looked after.

My parents do our washing / ironing in the week, cook for the DSes and buy bits and pieces if necessary (if we run out of milk or yoghurt or something).

We also have a cleaner who we starting employing recently and is fantastic.

I feel like I spend enough time with my boys in the week - usually 2 hours in the morning and an hour in the evening with DS1, plus an extra 90 minutes or so with DS2 (cos he can nap a lot in the day). DH usually sees both boys morning and evening though not for long.

However, I am under a lot of pressure as my job requires me to do more hours than I currently do, so I am always running to catch up and sometimes have to work in the evening and at weekends. Also, it all falls apart when someone is ill a) because our already disrupted nights get even worse b) I or DH need to take the DSes to the Dr (something I refuse to delegate to my parents - I consider it to be our responsibility) or as happened recently, c) one of the DC was admitted to hospital and stayed for several days so I couldn't go to work as I stayed at the hospital the whole time. The backlog of work to catch up on was horrendous.

I am currently interviewing for a new job which will be slightly fewer hours but more importantly, no pressure to do the extra work at home plus more holidays

I am also sticking at 2DC because I cannot imagine how I would cope with the sleepless nights and the illnesses with 3!

I think that with a nanny its doable. And depending on your DC's sleeping habits you can see a surprising amount of them in the week. For a long time, DS1 went to sleep at 10pm and caught up in the day with his naps. So I spent real quality time with him in the evenings, not stressed out etc. Now he's asleep earlier but I still have an hour to chat to him about his day and then get to spend some one on one time with DS2.

Ah, you are bored as a SAHM. I'm the same.

if you don't want to stay at home FT you may not be the best person to look after your DC all day

Totally agree with this from Naive. If I was a SAHM I'd be reluctant and a bit bored. My nanny by contrast enjoys playing with DC, crafts, going to playgroups etc. My own mother is much the same as me, and whilst I think she's fab, I also think I did better by her working and being looked after by a nanny - I got the best of both worlds.

And as others have said - there is a lot of value to working even if financially you don't need to, not only to keep your brain ticking over, but also to maintain a level of equality and similarity to DH, and also to enhance family earnings, longer term even if not now. (And that's before I get started on the benefits to feminism ).

Yes, do ask about working from home one or two days a week - that gives you extra time with DC morning and evening instead of commuting. And yes, ask about part time! Times are changing and it may be more acceptable than you think. Though you might need to offer to do 6 months full time to "prove yourself" first.

Calling nanny agencies is a good idea. Just a word as regards nanny costs - you pay per nanny, not per child. So it's not "two little ones plus school pick up and drop off" - it's "I want a nanny 5 days a week from X time to Y time". Remember to factor in the "hidden" costs of nanny such as having heating on, a kitty for activities/craft stuff, nanny's lunch, bonus. Can you offer live in? It's a lot cheaper and live in nannies are more flexible about staying late/babysitting as they live there anyway.

Enjoying yes fair enough - we shall see what happens when I have more than one (I'm 30 wks pg with DC2), I'm sure it will be harder in a million ways! I can tell you though, whatever solution we find, it will absolutely not be me being a full time SAHM. I'd be miserable and for that reason I don't think it would be the best thing for the DC either.

If you have the space do consider a live-in nanny as it is a lot cheaper. I hear you on the cost of childcare and it sucks. I am very lucky that I don't live in the UK and have access to cheaper childcare. Good thing about working at a bank is that they generally have good technology. Might be able to work from home once a week.

I would say see if you can do the professional job 4 days a week, or 3 full days and two half days based at home. Also is your DH in a position to ask for flexible working?

Why? Because kids want to do after-school activities when they are older. When I worked FT I was lucky that my husband was able to be at home two afternoons a week and I worked from home one day a week so my son could do after-school activities three days a week (or play with friends etc).

If he'd gone to a childminder or after-school club 5 days a week he'd not have had that flexibility. I guess a nanny could take kids to places but it's not quite the same.

I now work 4 days spread over 5, mainly from home, and my husband still has the two afternoons a week. So our son probably sees more of us than he wants to!

having worked for a bank I would be wary of asking for part time hours at the start. I would start ft and prove myself then ask for PT if you want/need it.

It's hard with childcare costs and I am very much in disagreement with many here on MN in that I do not think childcare should cost more than what you make nor that having a nanny is a luxury when both parents work FT.

If you have a nanny she can take the children to after school activities - another advantage over child minders although our children when they were that age tended to do things at school rather than out of school (except at weekend).

Sounds like a no brainier from he info you include in you OP. Option 2, the part time job. But, discuss options to make it more intellectually stimulating with the employer. Are there special projects you can develop ad deliver for instance? Any extra professional development opportunities you can pursue as part of the role? If you don't need he money and you value the time with your children that they miss out on with their dad then that's what I would do. The full time position sounds like too much strain on all your lives. But hey, obviously I have no idea what you and your family members are capable of coping with!

I guess a nanny could take kids to places but it's not quite the same.

Why not?

No different from school age children staying late for orchestra or a netball match surely? In fact the more people who have influence over our children the better - father, mother, relatives, teachers, nannies etc.

Why is it "not the same" if the nanny takes them to after school stuff - sounds like an argument in favour if a nanny vs childminder or nursery to me, rather than an argument for part time working.

Part time would, of course, allow you to get to know other parents if you did the school run some days, but that's overrated IMantisocialO.