To think he could own up to making an actual decision?

[riverriver]

A bit of background: I've been ill and told DH I wouldn't be cooking dinners, and we agreed to get take away for a couple days, which he would drive out and get. But then DH got ill too, but not as bad as me (I wasn't able to stand or even sit for more than a few minutes at time, he'd been sitting up all day). Here's an approximate transcript of our conversation the other night:

Me: "DH, are you feeling up to driving for take away tonight?"
DH: "I dunno."
Me: "If not, I could make myself some soup and help you put on some fish sticks. But I can't do much more than that, so you'd have to help cook your dinner."
DH: silence
Me (after a while): "DH? We need to talk about dinner. Are you up to getting take way or should we cook?"
[cycle through the last two lines a few times, until...]
DH: "I'm feeling pretty bad. I just can't think."
Me: "Shall I start some fish sticks for you? Or would you like something else?"
DH: "I could probably get take away."
Me (getting frustrated): "Could probably? Can you or can't you? I'm not going to tell you to get take away when you feel bad, because I can't make the decision of whether or not you can drive. You have to do that. Just say you can or can't. What's so hard about that?" [pretty sure I went overboard here especially with that last sentence, but I'm frustrated from this repeating pattern]
DH: "If you want me to, I could go get take away."
Me: "Just tell me if you can. I'm not going to tell you to do it because I want you to. I won't be the one to make this decision."
DH (after a long silence): "So, if I were to get take away, what I should I get?"
We then discuss what to get and he goes and gets takeaway. AIBU to expect him to be able to actually own up to making the decision himself?

This is a repeating pattern. If ever there is a decision where the options are he sacrifices versus puts his own interests first, he just refuses to make a strong statement. It feels like he is making me make the decision, so then it is me who has decided he goes without or gets what he wants.

Another example is a recent row we had over TV. We normally watch a recorded TV show after I put DD to bed and have my bath. So I come out from my bath to find him about 30 minutes from the end of a movie. Thinking he might prefer to finish watching the movie, I ask, "Shall we watch a show, or would you like to finish watching that? I can do MN something else until it's over."

DH: "Whatever you want."
Me: "I'm happy either way."
DH: "Do you want to watch a show now?"
Me: "I really have no opinion."
DH: "The movie is on record."
Me (confused): "So, do you want to stop watching it now? I'd be happy to watch something with you."
DH (angry): "Stop making me guess what you want!"
Me (angry): "I don't want anything! I really have no opinion! Do you want to watch the movie or not?"
[and an argument takes off]
I eventually just walked away hiding tears and nearly posted a very angry post on MN, but calmed down. And he watched the end of the movie.

It does seem connected with when he has a desire, but as I can't always guess what the desire is, it is confusing. Just a few nights ago we had the TV conversation that went very differently (same set-up, DH about 30 minutes from the end of the movie):

Me (trying a different question, hoping it will help): "Are you absorbed in this movie, such that you'd like to see the end?"
DH: "Not really. It wasn't as good as I'd heard."
Me: "So you'd be happy to watch something with me now?"
DH: "Yes."
We then watch a show. No further drama.

I'd like to discuss this with DH, as it is getting very frustrating for me to feel like I am always the one to 'make' him sacrifice or decide he 'can' have a treat. But before I do, I wanted to check and make sure it isn't me. Am I being overbearing? Should I have just taken "I could probably" as a "Yes" and gone from there? Was it inappropriate for me to demand he take a stance? Would my second movie question have worked the first night? Or, at least, should I try more things like that -- asking directly about if he's having fun versus is he willing to sacrifice?

Sorry this is so long. (Oh, and namechange because I'm bit embarrassed about asking this, and because DH might know my username...)

Honestly, reading these replies makes for some WTF-ery. This is a grown man we're talking about. If you didn't know any better you really would think we were discussing a small and recalcitrant toddler here.

It's not that I don't want to make a decision. I make lots of decisions. He never makes any. I didn't put those scenarios as they don't drive me crazy.

But to contrast, a recent weekend lunch:
Me: "Do you have a plan for your meal?"
DH: "No"
I go make a meal for myself and DD, that he could eat too. When he next appears I say, "There's sausage and mac and cheese in the kitchen, you can have some if you want."
No drama.

A usual TV night:
Me: "Let's watch a show."
DH: cues up a show.

Imagine a dozen similar interactions a day. Always me saying I want to do, or simply doing it, and him going along.

It is only, only when I don't have an opinion and have some inkling that he might have a reason to care either way, such that I try to be kind and not just do my thing that this happens. And he never actually says that he doesn't have an opinion -- he just asks me what I want, or tells me that he 'could' do something if 'I want' it. Perhaps I should ask, "To be clear, you have no opinion either way about what we do?" (Although I can see the answer: "I'll do whatever you want", which in fact doesn't answer the question. I think I've done this...)

Regarding the film: it would be very silly for me to assume he wanted to watch the end of it. The TV is usually on when I come out from my bath, and 99% of the time he isn't really paying any attention and just using it for background noise. When it's a movie, it's more like 80% of the time. Thus, for the 1 in 5 times that he'd actually gotten interested in what was on, I bother to ask him.

It did come out in the course of a second, later argument (when I tried to instigate TV-watching after the movie ended), that he did have a desire that he hadn't told me: He wanted to rewind the film to the beginning and have us watch it together. Apparently, that's what "The movie is on record" meant. He was also annoyed that it had taken 'so long' (as long as it normally does) for me to put DD to bed and take a bath, such that it was a bit too late for starting a movie by the time I was done. And by the time it came out -- after the movie was over, it was obviously too late for a movie. How in the world was I meant to know this? Why couldn't he have just told me what he wants? Instead of (a) having a very specific, unusual desire, and (b) attempting to get me to say what 'I want' in order for it to happen. Obviously I wasn't going to suggest that! It was too late, so it wasn't even on my mind!

I feel for you OP, you don't want to feel like you are railroading DH so are trying to give him the space to make a decision, but he won't. And so you have to coax the "truth" out of him that actually he DOES have a preference, desire, opinion. It's annoying.

What are fish sticks?!

I know queen.

Dh and I make decisions separately and jointly, if something one if us has suggested doesn't turn out well, or live up to expectations, there is no blame involved, we either laugh about it or learn from it and move on. Standard conversation afterwards would be something along the lines of "Sorry, about that, it wasn't what I expected/was led to believe" answer "Don't apologise it's not your fault we'd never have known unless we tried".

"Do you have a plan for your meal?"

Sorry, OP but who on earth asks anyone if they "have a plan" for their meal? Don't you just generally agree to what's going to be eaten and when and then get on with it? If I was going out on a particular night I might advise DH of the various options available but I wouldn't be wanting to know what he actually chose to eat.

As I said earlier, I really think you are confusing indecisiveness with a desire to avoid these endless, analytical exchanges over things that aren't worthy of analysis. Your DH may simply want a simpler life without feeling that he's actually living through an interview with Special Branch.

So he should have offered to put your DD to bed while you take a bath and hey presto!! Enough time for a movie.
Your husband sounds like a weapons-grade fud, to be honest. All this manbabying and angst over such minor matters...so utterly exhausting.
Practice saying "You choose today. No really, YOU CHOOSE. I have run out of choosing today, it's your turn". Repeat ad infinitum.

Yes, with food, he would much rather just have it plonked in front of him (and them complain if he didn't like it). For the most part, I do this, as I have learned it is useless to engage him in discussion about this. For this particular example, I was just checking to make sure he hadn't made other plans, as if he had, I would have cooked something only DD and I like, instead of something we could share.

Well your latest post has merely reinforced the fact that the two of you have a major communication issue and I seriously think you need to sort it out, but as I said previously, I think you need a third party/counsellor as an objective outsider as you will just go round and round in circles if left to your own devices.

I'm feeling more sympathy for you the more you post OP. Your DH sounds like very very hard work. He has learnt this form of communication from someone. If you as a rule are very clear about what you want to do, he has no excuse for not believing you when you say you don't mind.

Taking no responsibility for making decisions and then sulking about the result of your decisions is a fundamental problem that you need to talk to him about. If he never sulked about your decisions I bet you wouldn't be so keen to make him vocalise what he really wants.

and fgs stop saying things like "Do you have a plan for your meal?" I talk to my 14 yo like that about her homework! Just make the lunch and hand it to him on a plate with a bib if he really can't bring himself to partake in The Kitchen Work. Job done, no angst, and if he doesn't like it he'll throw it at the wall just not eat it. Or you could try just leaving him to his own devices, seeing as he is an adult presumably capable of entering a kitchen without cutting himself on a sharp knife or drinking the bleach.

But OP, this is all so trivial. I barely count meal or TV choices as decisions. What does it matter?

Honestly, if my DH and I got so worked up about such little things I'd be seriously questioning our compatibility.

You sound like you live two completely separate lives, you share a living space but not much else.

If my husband were to make a habit of complaining about meals when I'd went to the effort of making them...I'd stop making them. Let him fend for himself.
It sounds to me like your husband sits on the sofa sulking while you do pretty much everything for him and then has the cheek to moan when it's not to his liking...is that about right? If so, I would be taking steps to redress that balance in your relationship. It doesn't sound particularly healthy, or a good example to be setting to your DD.

'Do you have a plan for your meal'?
Wtaf?
It's like he just lives there and isn't a part of the family. That's how it comes across. Like other posters, the DCs and DP get what's put in front of them.

As for the film, on average a film is 90mins. There are 30 mins left so you've been upstairs for the best part of an hour. Maybe him wanting to watch it together is to get you engaged with him - as a couple.

Oh my days you are exhausting.

OP, you're as bad as he is. Actually, reading your initial OP, I was on Team Husband.

It wouldn't occur to me to ask someone half an hour from the end of a movie, whether they fancied doing something else. Why would you do that?

You don't sound happy with your relationship. I'm guessing there arw other issues.

I think that you don't actually like him very much.

This is one of of the oddest descriptions of a relationship I have ever read, in fact to me it seems there is no relationship just two people who happen to inhabit the same space.

OMG I could be your DH (to a degree - I can quite happily prepare myself some food if my DH can't - he generally does the cooking and meal planning), but Im not. Unless you are my DH pretending to be a wife Though neither of us have been ill and never get takeaways.

So coming at this from your DH's angle. He really isn't bothered about what show you watch, what you eat, what you do. He really doesn't have a specific desire or opinion to do anything. Really. He hasn't. Just do what you want to do and if he really doesn't want to then assume he will say. If he doesn't say then thats his problem.

I never really make that many decisions. Mainly because I am much happier going along with the flow and doing what everybody else wants to do. If I do want to do something in particular then I will say, but this doesn't happen a lot because I really dont have an opinion, desire or the will to decide anything and I am genuinely happy to do what other people want. Id rather people didn't push me to make a decision about what to do and they said what they wanted.

OP, did you ask why he wouldn't express what he wanted about the film? That's really odd behaviour - why wouldn't he just say?

Does he pull his weight elsewhere around the house, because it's not sounding so great at the moment? I'd be hitting the roof if DH left me to put the kids to bed then got sulky about it afterwards!

He definitely needs to work on his communication. Does he see that you can't read his mind, or does he expect you to guess?

"Let me know when you've finished watching this and we can watch xxx"

"I'm about 10 minutes away from being hungry, so if you haven't been to the takeaway by then I'll make myself soup. If you want something different, let me know."

"If you don't like this then you can pick next time, but the time to request something else was before the meal was in front of you."

"If you really don't mind, then I will do xxx, if you want to do something else then you need to speak up before we leave at 11."

The irony is that you are asking us how to help you make decisions about what to do about your husband - it does suggest that you are trying to cure his indecisiveness by adding your own into the mix, which is never going to work. However, if he doesn't decide what to eat or expend any effort in preparing or procuring food, then do not accept moaning or criticism from him.

The thing is, for the take away one, I know his response: it would be: "I could probably get take away if you want me to." How do I respond to that? Do I say I want him to? Say I don't? It would now sound to me like he does want take away. And he's now pushed the decision onto me.

You say 'I don't care what we eat, I just want to have some food inside me by 8 o'clock.' Don't tell him that it sounds like he does want takeaway as that's exactly what you are accusing him of doing. He can only push the decision onto you if you allow him to - no decision is a decision if he knows the alternatives, so let him choose.

My DH is just the same. Maddening.

I don't engage with his behaviour now. At most, I suggest alternatives - I check what we have in cupboard & freezer & suggest a couple of meals we/he could make from that. Usually one easy, throw-in-the-oven type, & another requiring a bit more prep. Both would be things he likes. Then I get on with my own, which is usually something different.

If he then chooses not to eat I do not tolerate his mood swings. And I almost never suggest we go out for a meal or get a takeaway on a whim as, once again, he can't decide what he wants & gets really frustrated.

What I'm hearing from your posts is:

He won't make a decision thus making you responsible for everything
He blames you when things go wrong rather than just seeing it as one of those things
He blames you by making up bizarre situations that might have happened that you didn't know about but should have guessed (such as the movie thing)
He doesn't cook and assumes that you will cook for him, such that when you can't cook because you're ill you have to handhold him through a simple task like cooking fish sticks
He doesn't put your DD to bed
He is unpleasant when hungry but won't solve that problem by making sure he's fed - you have to urge him to eat, as though he's a child, in order to protect yourself from his bad moods
You are tying yourself in knots trying to understand him

Frankly he sounds absolutely fucking horrendous. You sound like someone who can't see that and is still hanging on to the notion that he's a reasonable person and that if you just find a way to communicate with him he'll suddenly become reasonable.

He won't.