To not bring first born grandchild to the inlaws...

[piazilla]

I live in the uae and have to return to my native Ireland this month for unavoidable reasons . My ds ( first grandchild on both sides) will be coming with me - and although I'm nervous about making the journey alone with a ten week old, I know that my mum will organise everything I need when I get home and I won't need to worry about a thing during my stay.
I'll stay in Ireland for 3 weeks - here is the clincher - my inlaws live in Paris and want me to bring baby over for a week. Paternal grandfather is the only one who hasn't been over to visit ( his own choice - work commitments last minute meant he didn't visit when mil came over) so therefore mil is bleating that fil really wants to meet grandson .
I have a classic stereotypically tense relationship with mil. She does whatever she pleases regardless of what anyone else thinks . Baby will be paraded around for visitors - I'm breastfeeding on demand - it's all a bit - arrrgh! Aibu to not go to Paris or am I just being uncharitable and mean spirited?

Not a hope would I do it, no way! Not mean spirited at all, just realistic, don't be bullied into a decision that will make you utterly miserable, especially when breasyfeeding!

Ali, having seen your first posting on this thread, it honestly doesn't concern me what you think of me.

I think and under 1 year old would have to eat an awful lot of honey to be poisoned.

life.familyeducation.com/baby/safety/40610.html

"Honey may contain the spores of a bacteria germ that can cause infant botulism."
It doesn't take a lot. Most will be safe, but would you risk a worst case scenario?

As an aside to those discussing it, infant botulism from honey is rare but quite dangerous. I really don't understand why you would knowingly expose a baby to a risk like that?

Just because you fed your baby piles of honey and it was ok doesn't make it justifiable. When my mother was pregnant the medical advice was to reduce (but not cut out) smoking and I'm perfectly ok - should I proceed to smoke while pregnant on that basis???

Ok Ok Ok mea culpa mea culpa mea maxima culpa regarding honeygate 1 - 0 to the DILs! That's a bit of Latin Mummyatlast but you're right I don't know much at all.............

And please can one of you (more if possible) explain why you are still telling the OP not to go to the ILs, when she has already made her plans and is going for a weekend. Got it......good. WHY are you still all telling her not to go, and 2kidsandcounting says she "shouldn't allow herself to be bullied into a situation that will make her utterly miserable" WHERE is the evidence that there is any issue of bullying - the OP hasn't mentioned it, so do you know more about the OP's MIL than she does I wonder. And you know she is going to be "utterly miserable" - can you see into the future.

THIS is what I dislike so much - the way everyone piles in and ramps things up and keep on and on and on giving advice, long after the OP has left the thread.

WHY do you do it??? That is a serious question.

Knowing Latin doesn't impress me since I can spout several Latin words/phrases myelf ??. Just don't try and feed honey to any little babies ??

Well, that was meant to include smilies...

But why do you imagine I was trying to impress you Mummy - at my age I don't need to impress anyone - not at all. There are some advantages to getting old. And NO you have my word I will do my best to stop myself feeding honey to any little babies. Would it be ok if my grandchildren aged between 5 and 14 wanted honey to give them a small amount

Nil desperandum!

NanaNina no offence, but you don't seem like a nice person, and you're being cocky. We don't care how old and wise you are. Honey could kill a baby... It's not set in stone... When my gramma was preggers all 3 times she was recommended to eat liver 2-3 times a week and use honey as a sugar sub... Fair enough mum and aunt were fine.. But uncle had a really sickly childhood.. He spent 4 years in hospital altogether... Then the docs said a year ish ago wen he went in that it could have been all the liver my gramma ate and fed to him + other 2 kiddies that caused it... So a warning that was never there when YOU were up duff may have been revised and reclassed when us lot were up duff. I think we can all agree new is better when it comes to health... Because let's face it.. People used to mix gin with milk and give to bairns a hundred years ago whereas now we all know it's dangerous.. Your opinions and attitude are outdated and from the look of it I'd say they weren't welcome here either think the general consensus is SHOVE OFF! An opinion is just that. It doesn't have to be right and is never concrete evidence of something. Although there's always the chance that you're really OP's MIL and that's why everyone saying don't do it is denying the grandpappy from seeing his grandson... rant over

Meow that's an uncalled for personal attack. NanaNina has apologised and now knows better about honey and the under-ones. Yes evidence-based medicine has improved considerably in the past 30 years but going from there to telling someone they aren't welcome is just not on. I don't have a greatest relationship with my MIL (or sometimes my mum for that matter!) but I try my best for the sake of my two sons so they get to know their grandmothers and have their own relationships with them without it being mediated by me or their dad. I think it is important that Ninanina is able to give a MIL's point of view and she shouldn't be shot down for doing so.

Op I sooooo understand your nerves about travel . It's ever so daunting

Believe it or not small babies are the easiest to fly with . They sleep and eat and cry

However if I was a first time mum I know I would be massively stressing too

I will get shot down by some for this but have you considered a bene au lait nursing cover ? I used this on flights , departure lounges and family parties , trains . Not once did I get any comments or issues

It was a massive life saver for me and gave me wings with ds2 that I never had with first

Oh . Right now she is annoying . But one day you will have maybe a toddler and a school ager. And you will be gagging to hand them over for a few hours/ overnight !!!

Hands on gp can be very trying and hard when their are small babies but GREAT when older!!!!

Oh man - I won't even comment in honey gate other than to say ; it was a random example. Truth be told mil would be more likely to give my ten week old a bit of olive on her finger! Here is the point: she would not be up to date with current best practice with infants ( not in itself a crime by any stretch of the imagination - it's ridiculous how much things change from year to year) but more importantly , she would not be willing to respect my wishes on the matter : whatever it may be! No need to go after one poster or start to fight about the issue of honey!

Meow

I would ask you speak for yourself not as the collective when insulting other posters .

The vitriol you have for a complete stranger with simply a different set of ideas is baffling frankly

Thank you for your support Issy and fromparis in response to Meow's personal insults. As you say Issy I apologised as I really didn't know about the honey issue (why would as I am not the mother of a baby!) maybe Meow didn't know that mea culpa means "I'm sorry!" To be honest her insults don't bother me at all - I had a smile at the notion that I am "not a nice person" and then she states "that the general consensus is to SHOVE OFF" - she sounds quite charming herself!

And how arrogant to think that she knows what the general consensus is. She's gonna be one bossy MIL when her turn comes!

I agree, fromparis also with IssyStark

NanaNina, Meow may have appointed herself thread spokeswoman but she was certainly not speaking for me. It has been refreshing to read your viewpoint, although I might not be coming to you for advice on infant nutrition I hope you're ok.

Op, I'm glad you've found a compromise. I think you'd have been entirely within your rights to say 'no' but if I had a grandchild living so far away, I'd be desperate to see him too. You're doing a kind thing.

Whoops, just cross posted with you nana!

IF anyone is interested there is a thread in Relationships "What is your worst MIL story" and I've just posted in some detail, trying to throw a little light on this MIL thing especially when the grandchildren arrive as I'm in the position of experiencing a bossy MIL and being a MIL myself - not a bossy one by any means

You might be interested I dunno.........just thought it worth a mention.

Well I've been on MN for many years and being told to SHOVE OFF is definitely a first! I could report the post but I can't be arsed!

Thank you Floisme

Obviously you shouldn't give honey to under ones- but just in case anyone has, and is worried, this is from the NHS website-

"Between 1975 and 2013, there were 16 cases of infant botulism in England and Wales. None resulted in death."

Pistillate, just to add my weight to the suggestion that travelling with a very small baby is actually very easy compared to when they are a bit older! I did long train journeys and flights before ds1 was 4 months as my mat leave was short and my own Grandad was frail and unable to travel to see his first ggs. Slings are definitely a good choice. I wouldn't bother expressing, just feed from the tap! Good luck with all your travels and remember it is only a few days and everyone will be admiring your LO so you might actually be able to drink a cuppa while it is still warm

I'm at an absolute loss why travelling from UAE to Cork to see a doctor creates any obligation to make a trip to Paris?

If you were going to be near Paris, I could see it.

But you are going to a completely different country.

It's just bizarre.

Traveling with a very young breast fed baby may well be much easier than with an older baby/toddler (that was certainly my sister's experience with her two and regular flights to Australia), but that doesn't necessarily make it so easy that everyone would want to add extra flights.

The other thing to bear in mind is that some small babies are just difficult full stop - at that age my ds was very easy but my dd cried every night for several hours. Very stressful and no way could I have coped being at my ILs (or anyone else that I didn't know very very well and was totally relaxed with) on my own for more than a night or so at that time. Although as my MIL died before my children were born I never got to put it to the test.

Anyway the OP has reached a good compromise I think, I hope it all goes well.

flyingwithchildren.blogspot.co.uk/

Hi OP - I've this bookmarked for years and it's very useful.

About infant botulism, it may not kill, but would you risk your child catching this:

"Constipation may be present in affected infants for a variable length of time and can precede weakness by several weeks. Hypotension, neurogenic bladder and other signs of autonomic dysfunction can occur early in the course of the disease. Signs of weakness in the infant with botulism begin with cranial nerve involvement and loss of head control. The infant may develop a weak cry, poor sucking ability, impaired gag reflex, pooling of secretions and decreased oral intake. Loss of ocular motility ptosis, mydriasis and facial weakness also may occur. The weakness progresses in a descending fashion in a matter of days. Affected infants become irritable and lethargic. In severe cases of infant botulism, respiratory difficulties begin as a late sign of disease, quickly leading to respiratory arrest"
"Infants with botulism should stay in an intensive care unit because they frequently require airway management, nasogastric tube feedings, and physical and occupational therapy. Parents are usually permitted 24-hour visitation and should be encouraged to participate in the care of their infant."
"For infants who require mechanical ventilation, the average duration is 23 days. (!) On average, infants were able to feed orally 51 days from admission. (!!) Parents should be aware that the course of this illness consists of small improvements and setbacks. The average hospital stay is 44 days."

Sure, it doesn't kill, so it's fine.