I've moved the 'goal posts' and DH is struggling.

[MyballsareSandy]

Quick background - we've been together nearly 30 years, married for 20, two DCs in early teens. My job since having kids has been very part time and flexible, and I have been very happy to get on with most things at home, as I have had the time, whereas DH hasn't.

I did all the financial stuff, food shopping, most of the housework, some of the gardening, most of the kids school stuff, helping with homework, running them around, our social diary, holidays, helping elderly parents ..... etc etc.

DH cooked a couple of times a week, did the dishwasher occasionally, did a bit of gardening occasionally. His massive contribution to our household has been DIY - that's his thing and we've gradually extended and completely redone our home, mainly done by him.

Anyway, we get to now. An opportunity came up at work for longer hours, meaning more time in the office (London commute, approx 3 hours round trip, sometimes more depending on shite trains), more money, more responsibility. I jumped at the chance as the kids are more independent, at secondary school, quite able to come home alone and sort themselves out until one of us gets home. DH agreed it was a good opportunity and said he would 'step up' at home more.

Unfortunately it also concided with him going self employed, setting up his own business, which has taken up a lot of his time, understandably.

But I've become resentful and frustrated that still most of the stuff at home is down to me. Admittedly the kids are lazy and that needs addressing, one of DH's bugbears, but he doesn't do enough, he really doens't get it. He tries, but its crap, and I'm finding it hard to live with the chaos.

We're snippy with each other and tetchy, neither of us seeing each others side. He said this morning that I've changed and I'm not as laid back as I was, and the house is always full of tension these days, while he's doing his best to build up his business for the family. WTF!

I text him earlier saying let's have a 'family meeting' later and discuss how things can be improved, with all of us mucking in and doing our bit. He replied 'not much point, as my view is rarely listened to, I try to get the kids to do more, but you get upset if I raise my voice ... all this softly softly shit isn't working with them'.

We do have very different ways of parenting, and becuase I have always been here much more than DH, that is what the kids are used to. I do get results, I try not to yell and scream. DH's preferred method is to begin softly softly over nicely, then rage.

Jesus. long post, thanks for reading, we've always had a good relationship but I can see it going tits up as I'm losing respect for him .

Going on experience with DH (our kids are only toddlers, but we went through something similar when I went back to work after 2 years of being at home with them) I would say your best bet is to delegate specific areas of responsibility. All the shopping and cooking, or all the cleaning, or whatever. That way when it's not done, there's no arguing about who should have done it, and he can find his own way of doing it rather than you needing to be on his case about it. I'd say also, whatever it is he's doing, make it as concrete as possible, and take on the ad hoc jobs yourself. It seems to be something common with some men, even among the ones that count themselves as quite progressive and can cook and do their laundry and stuff, that they've often not been trained by their parents mothers to notice mess and stuff that needs done. They're better at projects (like the DIY). It's a crap state of affairs, it means you remain responsible for the house, but at least if you package up the work into nice project-like chunks, it might get done?

It's not so much of a family meeting that's needed though is it?

If you managed without the DC's contributing, then he can too. He is acting like a fucking child "oh well my views are never listened to ANYWAY".

I think you need to sit down with him and tell him that him stepping up home is not dependent on getting the kids to do more. End of discussion. You managed perfectly well for years on end, doing much more, and now it's his turn. The kids are a separate issue. Write a list of everything that needs to be done in the house - could it genuinely be that he just doesn't have a clue?

Split the list between you, and of that divide, allocate one thing from each list to the older children. If you don't want him to lose his rag, then it's down to you to make sure they know they have to follow through. If they don't, well then they get shouted at. It's nice if you have time to spend half an hour gently convincing them to do something. But unfortunately you don't have that luxury anymore! So either they do it within ten minutes, or they get an earful.

You have been used to multi-tasking for years. Your DH clearly hasn't if he's been in an office for that time. Now that he is self-employed he suddenly sees all the stuff that needs doing and which was previously invisible to him. Presumably finances might be a bit rocky if he's now SE?

I can see why there is resentment on both sides. you are being completely reasonable in expecting more help from him. He's so used to not giving it, and it IS stressful setting up a new business.

I think you need to leave the DCs out of it - that way leads to more stress and arguments. Is it possible to get a cleaner for example?

Sorry - not much advice here. Just that I can see why it's so difficult. Been there, done that. I gave up on my ex because it was too effing stressful trying to get him to change.

Totally agree with tooold. Instead of trying to share responsibility (and thus getting annoyed when DH or the DCs don't pull their weight) give specific jobs, including to the DCs. Emptying all the waste paper bins before bin day could be a teenager's job for example. No one has 'more' or 'less' times to do the chores than you, just different time.

My DH and I, when we moved in together, listed all the jobs and we picked which ones we disliked least and the one we hated the most. I hate vacuuming but he doesn't mind it, so he does it. Yes he might do it in his own sweet time but eventually he does it and it doesn't hang over my head. He hates putting the washing on so I do it and he knows he'll always have clean clothes. It just helps us forget about the chores we don't do as we know eventually they'll get done.

Got here too late, of course someone already mentioned a cleaner.

Funny, every time a man doesn't step up to the plate with housework, the solution is to get a cleaner and absolve him of it.

Delegate. It doesn't get done, it doesn't get done.

The one thing not to do: pack in your job.

Once you have agreed a job belongs to him don't pressure him to do it to your timescale not that I have made this mistake oh no! . If I agree with DH that he will do the DC's packed lunch it doesn't really matter if he does it at 7.30pm or 11pm as long as it is done.

It's not just you who has 'moved the goal posts'.

Your DH becoming self-employed in itself is a major shift.

It is hardly surprising that there are some major teething problems as the whole family gets to adjust to a very different regime.

Don't be too hard on each other, there is a lot of adapting to be done

i think you need to let him parent the way he does it - just because its different from yours doesn't make it wrong. if you want it done your way do it yourself.

with regards to doing stuff where he tries but you think its crap - thats just down to different standards - once again you cant make someone do things your way - if you want it done a certain way do it yourself but don't criticise other people for doing things their way - its patronising.

Well the issue here is that both you and your DH have changed career track at the same time and you didn't set a clear new set of rules for this transition before you did it. So he's used to you chivvying the DC, making sure there's loo roll in the downstairs loo, putting out the bins, etc, and he hasn't changed gear to realise that these things are now his responsibility too. He's also now at home all the time, which no doubt sets up an expectation in your mind that he might actually do some of the household chores as well as his business stuff, but he's not doing that by the sound of things.

In addition, your DH is being passive-aggressive and childish by refusing to discuss the issues that have arisen and just bitching about the results. I agree that you need to sit down - all of you - and agree a list of responsibilities.

i.e. DH will do the bins, the garden, the cars, and will cook x meals per week. You will order the groceries, feed the cat, clean bathrooms and put the washing machine on. DC will be responsible for cleaning their rooms, folding and putting their own laundry away, and keeping their belongings in the right places, not strewn across the common areas.

Can you afford a cleaner? That might take some of the strain off two busy adults and keep the place from getting too filthy.

I think you do need a family meeting and to allocate what everyone is to do each week. I give my dc's an allowance each week that is dependant on them having done their jobs. Ds1 hoovers upstairs and cleans the upstairs bathroom twice a week. Ds2 hoovers downstairs twice a week and empties the dishwasher each day. Ds3 does all the odd jobs, fetching and carrying. Each of the older boys have a night where they help ds3 with his shower and get him ready for bed. They will do his story if I am really tired busy. They also empty the bins.

I could use the money I give them to pay a cleaner but they would prefer to have it themselves. Could you offer this. I do almost everything else in the house and most of the taxi rides. Dh does gardening and DIY.

I text him earlier saying let's have a 'family meeting' later and discuss how things can be improved, with all of us mucking in and doing our bit. He replied 'not much point, as my view is rarely listened to, I try to get the kids to do more, but you get upset if I raise my voice ... all this softly softly shit isn't working with them'.

'Ok then - we won't have a discussion about it like grown ups. No worries.'

I'm pretty surprised at the advice to leave the teenagers out of it. What is a family, if not a group of people who muck in and help each other out when it's needed?

I think the family meeting goes ahead, everyone is given an area that is their responsibility, and if DH has a huff and doesn't turn up, he'll get the shit on the bottom of the list.

Corporate what I meant was to not make the DCs feel responsible for the stress & angst between the parents. The DCs should of course muck in with everyday chores but my concern is that presumably the DCs weren't consulted about the job changes by both parents, just told this was happening and they need to do more.

The issues are really between OP and her DH and they need to be resolved outside of yelling at the children to do more around the house.

Buy some help.

if I were you and had more cash and less time I would hire a cleaner and a gardener and outsource the ironing. all of you can take a couple of regular chores to keep the place ticking over.

I'm self employed and work from home....I don't do an awful lot of housework either...I just don't have the time. As others have said, you need a cleaner.

Sounds like you and your dh need a pre-meeting before the family meeting to sort out the tensions b/w the 2 of you. Do you think he is 'not listened to' re household stuff (understandable if you have been doing most of it and are the expert)?

Dividing up the jobs more fairly isof coursea good idea, but only if you are open to the idea that there might be too much to do overall. So part of the solution may be to drop stuff, lower your standards or buy in help.

And yes in an ideal world you'd have talked about the impact changing jobs would have on the rest of your lives first but hey, that's life. IME it took dh and I to settle into the 'new normal' when I upped my days at work.

Thing is what you appear to mind is your status. I know you have a great new job but your not letting go at home are you? Still has to be done your way.

He's acting childishly coz he's fed up. Are you wrapped up with work? Neglecting him? Does he need support for new business? Is he feeling scared about that somehow?

You dismissed the kids doing more very lightly too. It had to be dh. Don't see why. Many jobs they can do. The kids need to know to listen to him too. Bet they are lazily saying 'I'll just wait til mum gets in...' And you're running round martyring.

Some thing must be your 'fault' as you can't be perfect. Like them your just human too. I have a feeling you are going to be hit with a list and it's going to shock you as your not looking at your own behaviour just nit picking his. You say he's losing respect for you, sounds like his for you has also waned recently.

Thanks all, it has been a major change and maybe I'm expecting too much for it all to just drop into place. Add in the hormones of the teens and the pressure they are under at school, then no wonder the house is stressy.

I know it's patronising to want him to do thing to 'my standard', I do sometimes listen to myself and think if that was him talking to me, then I wouldn't be happy. But I struggle to see why some things are so difficult for him and why he can't just see what needs to be done. I was first home last night, so I got dinner on. Couple of hours later he asked me if I wanted him to do the dishwasher .... why even have that conversation, the dishes need doing, we've both been at work, I've cooked.

Another petty example, he'll unload the dishwasher and put it all stacked up on the surface above it, well what help is that?

A cleaner would be useful, but as expat says, it seems to be absolving him of any responsibility in the house, when he agreed to 'step up'.

His business is doing well, but he says he finds it hard being his own boss, as there are constant things going on his head, things he has to do and think about.

But instead of me being supportive and discussing it, I'll immediately think 'Welcome to the fucking club, you've had it easy for years, I've always had a million and one things going on in my head, juggling stuff".

The kids do need to do more, definitely, but as someone else said, perhaps address that when me and DH have sorted out our 'differences'.

This was highlighted recently when a friend was saying how much she missed her Dh as he was working away for a week. It made me think how I would miss his company and chat (although perhaps not at the moment ), but I wouldn't miss him practically as he doesn't contribute enough. In fact it would be easier as I would know I have to get on with it all, and there wouldn't be the simmering resentment and childish 'adding up' of who has done what.

Not healthy . I won't leave my job as I love it generally and as the kids are becoming more independent I will need it, but life was a lot easier and straightforward when we both knew our 'roles'.

I think the issue here is that your DH is not acting like an empowered adult, and he's sulking.

Maybe you all need to work on your communication styles- the only help I'd hire is a mediator to help you negotiate the rules of how to communicate.

There's a real danger your marriage will go tits up if you both are on such different pages. Griping and feeling sorry for himself in a PA way is unacceptable, but doing all the work and keeping doing it to make peace is also unacceptable.

I agree the dcs need to pitch in.

You do need a family meeting, but you need to agree how these meetings are run, and what is accecptable way of communicating so the results are forthcoming. Get a mediator to come in and facilitate them.

If a mediator doesn't help you formulate how you are going to proceed and your methodology, you need focussed marriage counselling to navigate the two very big life changes for all of you.

Good luck.

Maybe you are right Chillico, this is why we need to talk about it, so I can hear his side, I'm happy to do that.

Maybe I am a bit of a control freak at home, I don't like mess and chaos, it agitates me, whereas he and the kids don't mind. THerefore I do need to lower my standards, but how if it makes me feel like that?

I am a home worker and when I am at home on a weekday I work or read MN. I don't do house work - I have a job! It's not fair to think because he is now working from home that actually he has hours of free time he can do house work in.
But I do find it funny that your DH complains he isn't listened to, but actually he is doing exactly what he wants - i.e. not much.
I think you need to all sit down and agree who does what and try it for a few months. If it doesn't work, get a cleaner if you can afford it.
You are both entitled to some down time when you are working hard. Evenings and weekends should not just be about chores for any of you.

A mediator - that sounds a bit strong, do you really think we need that, and can't sort it out by ourselves?

I agree with what you say about his PA way is unacceptable and me doing it all is also unacceptable.

But the only way I can see this working is if I do go back to doing most things, with a happy cheery smile, without nagging or sniping, just like it was, everything back to normal. And he wouldn't question that, it wouldn't be raised again. I can't do it.

It is always difficult when men have to contribute more to the house - it's an alien world to them.

You need to let go of the organising and standard setting and he needs to understand there is stuff that needs to be done.

Draw up a list of jobs that need to be done and allocate them in a pragmatic way - who is around at the time and is able to do it. I recommend writing each task on a post it note and sticking them up somewhere noticeable and every person takes one every so often.

Therefore loading and unloading the dishwasher and laundry can be done by him as he's home during the day.

Stuff that the kids can do for themselves they need to do.

Don't criticise other's work - they will improve with time.

I don't think your husband has lost respect for you, he has just noticed how little he did in the house and how much actually needs doing and now he's a little thrown by realising he has to chip in too. So he is shifting his bad mood onto you, but he's actually just realised how privileged he was all those years and how he took you for granted. People don't do gratitude well, and men rarely even think they should be grateful for women's unpaid labour - although women are meant to be grateful for male "help" with laundry.

It will take about a year to settle the new routine in.

Although he is now self employed he isn't at home much. He's out from 7.30am to 6.30/7.00pm, sometimes working again in the evening, doing quotes, paperwork.