I've moved the 'goal posts' and DH is struggling.

[MyballsareSandy]

Quick background - we've been together nearly 30 years, married for 20, two DCs in early teens. My job since having kids has been very part time and flexible, and I have been very happy to get on with most things at home, as I have had the time, whereas DH hasn't.

I did all the financial stuff, food shopping, most of the housework, some of the gardening, most of the kids school stuff, helping with homework, running them around, our social diary, holidays, helping elderly parents ..... etc etc.

DH cooked a couple of times a week, did the dishwasher occasionally, did a bit of gardening occasionally. His massive contribution to our household has been DIY - that's his thing and we've gradually extended and completely redone our home, mainly done by him.

Anyway, we get to now. An opportunity came up at work for longer hours, meaning more time in the office (London commute, approx 3 hours round trip, sometimes more depending on shite trains), more money, more responsibility. I jumped at the chance as the kids are more independent, at secondary school, quite able to come home alone and sort themselves out until one of us gets home. DH agreed it was a good opportunity and said he would 'step up' at home more.

Unfortunately it also concided with him going self employed, setting up his own business, which has taken up a lot of his time, understandably.

But I've become resentful and frustrated that still most of the stuff at home is down to me. Admittedly the kids are lazy and that needs addressing, one of DH's bugbears, but he doesn't do enough, he really doens't get it. He tries, but its crap, and I'm finding it hard to live with the chaos.

We're snippy with each other and tetchy, neither of us seeing each others side. He said this morning that I've changed and I'm not as laid back as I was, and the house is always full of tension these days, while he's doing his best to build up his business for the family. WTF!

I text him earlier saying let's have a 'family meeting' later and discuss how things can be improved, with all of us mucking in and doing our bit. He replied 'not much point, as my view is rarely listened to, I try to get the kids to do more, but you get upset if I raise my voice ... all this softly softly shit isn't working with them'.

We do have very different ways of parenting, and becuase I have always been here much more than DH, that is what the kids are used to. I do get results, I try not to yell and scream. DH's preferred method is to begin softly softly over nicely, then rage.

Jesus. long post, thanks for reading, we've always had a good relationship but I can see it going tits up as I'm losing respect for him .

He was happy for you to do everything before now all of a sudden there is resentment over who does what?

Is he 5?

If something needs doing then it needs doing no matter how busy and important you think you are

NeedsAsockamnesty love the name - we have a sock amnesty every new years day.

why don't you support him more and criticise him in your head instead? why do you seem to resent him? why do you add up who has done what? from what you have written these all seem to be your issues not his.

if hes working nearly 12 hrs then having a short break to have something to eat and going back to do more work I think his brain is probably fried and he needs a break.

Hi OP, I don't really have any advice about your DH (me and DP have similar low-ish standards around the house which helps a lot!). However, I was once the useless teenager you describe and to my shame I didn't really help out around the house that much until I was an older teen. What changed wasn't really a sudden onset of maturity but my mother started to give me very specific tasks to do e.g. changing from really generic requests "tidy your bedroom" to "when I get back the washing up must be done". With the first one, I (horrible person I was) would claim I had tidied it or that it didn't need tidying whereas it's much harder to refuse the second one and I started to learn it was better to just do the washing up or whatever than deal with a pissed off parent.

Again, I also don't have kids so not sure of whether bribery is the done thing but I saw a thing online where parents don't give out the wifi password until specific tasks are completed and I thought, wow that would definitely have worked on me! So perhaps that could get them to do more around the house. I certainly think it would work better than removing pocket money (so much free entertainment online).

I would do a few things.

I would definitely assign jobs for the kids. My mum used to leave me a note for when I got home from school with the jobs I was supposed to do.

I also had set jobs like cleaning the bathroom on a Saturday and hoovering the downstairs on a Sunday. This is normal and GOOD for them. As teens there’s no way they should not be pulling their weight.

I probably would also get a cleaner once a week to do the ‘big’ stuff that you just don’t have the time to do. This should take the pressure off a bit.

But also your DH needs to take on certain jobs. Agree with him (when he gets over his strop!) which things he will be in charge of and stick to it. And if he doesn’t do those jobs DO NOT do them for him and seethe. Just don’t do them and they won’t get done. He’ll soon realise!

If he is out of the house for 12 hours a day and then working in the evenings, when are you expecting him to do the additional housework?

It sounds to me as if you've both started having less time for the housework, but each of you assumed that the other would do more. From your initial post, I assumed you meant he was at home and could pick up the extra work in the time when he used to be travelling, his lunch hour, and so on.

I think you're going to have to start doing a lot more housework at weekends - all of you, kids included - and live with not much getting done during the week. Not because a man can't be expected to do it but because your husband simply isn't there to do it!

He's out from 7.30am to 6.30/7.00pm, sometimes working again in the evening, doing quotes, paperwork.

I agree with a PP - when on earth is he meant to be doing all this work?

If that is the case with his working hours then a cleaner is a must.

We have a cleaner for four hours once a week and we are only me, DH and our toddler. It is essential for us!

But I don't think getting a cleaner should 'let off' the kids. Those lazy so and sos need to do more ;)

So as it stands, he has v little time for household stuff. If you don't either then the answer is not to do everything but to do less/buy in help.

What capacity does he have to reduce his work hours? Might be hard if business is new but it is a discussion worth having. And ultimately, what sort of take home pay are you both aiming for and how much work is needed to achieve this a) now b) in the short term?

My dh has always been wedded to his job. He would have been quite happy to bring in all the money and have me at home running things - but I wasn't happy with this once kids started school. What we agreed was that he would cap his working hours to 12 per day (Mon-Fri) inc travel time, and that he works from home 1 day a week to do school runs etc. On week days we are often on our feet til 9pm (or even 10pm on ironing nights) - but that's what it takes for us both to be able to work.

It was quite hard for him to understand and accept that his work life would have to be infringed to allow mine to florish (and I am by no means a high flier) - I think he thought that because I'd voluntarily done all the kid/household things in the early years that's the way it would always be. Wasn't til I told him I'd rather we took a substantial cut in household income than me always struggling to find work that fitted into school hours that he realised that things really would have to change.

I agree he's out of the house a long time, but so am I! I leave approx the same time, often home later, except for one day working from home. Paperwork isn't every night for him. So is it fair that I get in and crack on with stuff while he reads the paper or watches tv?

I agree some stuff should be left for the weekend, but we need to eat, we need clean clothes. I don't really want a week's worth of dishes left around until the weekend.

You've got a dishwasher though, right? So assign stacking it to one of the kids, and unstacking/putting away to the other kid.

As for washing, maybe whoever leaves latest in the morning puts the wash on and either a teen or your DH (whoever gets in first) hangs it up??

I can understand when someone claims that the dishwasher is their job but when they come to unload it, that just means taking the plates & cutlery out and leaving it on the worktop above the dishwasher. They need to realise that cutlery belongs in the drawer and the plates etc belong in the cupboard. They need to finish the job and not do a half attempt at it. .

I think you need to explain that while you have taken on more responsibility outside the home, everyone else in the family must take on more responsibility inside the home.

There is no reason at all why the teenagers can't step up and share jobs around the house if they are lazy. Your DH has also taken on different responsibility outside the home so he should not be treated any differently than you.

Work out all the jobs that need doing around the house. If it was a job that you used to do, explain how you used to do it and that if they are able to that is how it should be done. If they come up with a different way to do it that isn't just different and not worse, then leave them at it.

The idea of a family meeting is good but only if every one in the family particpates.

Best of luck!

If you are both working long hours/commuting etc then you both need downtime and a bit of together time. After a 12-hour day neither of you should be rushing round cleaning or ironing or whatever. Give the kids some specific jobs and never go in their rooms again until they leave home; then decide what to outsource - get a cleaner, send the ironing out, live on ready meals during the week, get a gardener. whatever.

I think some posters are being a bit harsh on your dh. You haven't swapped roles, you have gone from a house with one parent having enough time to do a lot of the SAHP stuff, to a household where you are both now doing busy jobs.

A cleaner would help, it wouldn't be letting dh off the hook, it would be acknowledging that with both of you working there isn't enough spare time to do the other stuff, and the new job could give you the possibility of buying in help.

I think you need a list of everything that needs doing. Some things are up to the person concerned. eg teens bedrooms? That is up to them to tidy and clean. Same with dh office, his space, he is responsible. The rest needs dividing up.

I think the dividing up should be a family thing. Tell teens they have to do one chore per day, eg dishwasher, or a big one per week, eg cleaning bathrooms. Let them chose, then you and dh chose which things you want to be responsible for.

meal plan, and buy to the plan. Let dh chose what he will cook and you chose what you will cook. I would be asking older teens to cook at weekend, so eg Sunday night they take turns.

This is about the whole family adjusting to the change. But one thing I learnt from my Mum is that if the job is dh's, you must let go of it, let him do it, to his standard and back off. The house is his as well as yours, that part of it is no longer your responsibility.

Try to remember it isn't a competition over whose job is the most important or stressful.

Bearing in mind that he has set up his own business, which is dramatically different to a job and the ability to switch off, I think getting help to close the gap and reduce household stress would work wonders.

Do have a meeting. Organise a cleaner. Remind everyone to not be a dick to each other and try to leave your stress at the door.

Also, i remember that me and my sister were also given one night each when we had to cook dinner.

My parents both worked and we had a similar family meeting when my mum couldn't take us being lazy teens any more! It worked.

Plus I enjoyed it. Your teens might enjoy cooking the family meal if they get to decide what they cook?

Realistically you have these choices.

1. you give up your job and things go back the way they were.

2. dh packs up his business and he becomes a house husband.

3. the kids step up and have jobs and so you are all working ironing cleaning gardening shopping in your down time and that's a recipie for disaster.

or

You can do the sensible thing and out source the gardening,Cleaning and ironing.

What the fuck is the point you both working long hours to get more money but bring miserable and rowing.

Have you bought a copy of "Wife work" ?

Basically the situation is more like you have gone from having one part time and one full time worker, to having two full time workers.

That means that you two now split things evenly.

Emptying the dishwasher and putting the plates on top of the surface is fucking idiotic at best and wilfully unhelpful at worst.

To be honest, I don't think your husband "gets it" that he is 50% responsible for running the household now. He still sees it as your domain. That's probably why he asks for your permission before doing anything. That's why it's so fucking irritating!

Give him set tasks that have to be done with equal regularity to the ones you do. e.g. it's not a fair split if he gets to pass the hoover round once a fortnight but you are stuck doing all the laundery every two days

I would suggest a pre-meeting meeting between you and your DP where you sort out what jobs actually need doing around the house. You can split it in to 'daily tasks' and 'weekly tasks' if necessary. Then you can have a meeting with the kids to decide who is responsible for what jobs. If you both work approximately the same number hours, then you each do half the jobs.

Your home is for the whole family, you and your DP need to both be comfortable there, so you both have to make compromises. It must be pretty hard for him if he tries to do stuff and its not up to your standard. If there are areas where you aren't happy to accept compromises, you will have to do those jobs.

For example, I really can't cope with my DP's seriously unhealthy meals, so we swapped from taking turns cooking to me cooking and he does dishes. He doesn't clean the bathroom properly, so I do that, but he does all the hovering.

So is it fair that I get in and crack on with stuff while he reads the paper or watches tv?
If you both take responsibility for the same amount of housework, it really doesn't matter if one of you is chilling while the other is cleaning / cooking, provided you both do the same amount overall.

In a typical evening, I cook while DP is watching TV, but then he does dishes while I chill.

We are in a pretty similar situation.
DH used to work long hours and regularly travel while I was a sahm.
Last year he started his own business and is now at home a lot more ( as in actually IN the house as he works from home if he doesn't have meetings)
At the same time I started freelancing as youngest DC started full time school - I am at home a lot too.
We are getting there but there has been a lot of adjustment, DH will do anything I ask but it annoys me that I have to ask and everything is still my responsibility but I have to delegate it to DH rather than him get on and do it. He asks if he has any clean gym gear for example instead of putting it in the machine or if he does that he won't switch it on without being told to.
Another part of the problem is that I have done things my own way all these years so now if he questions why I put something somewhere or why things are done a certain way I get annoyed.
Drop in income from him ( made up by me) has also added to the pressure as my business was meant to be a part time thing rather than the main income, which it now is.
We are slowly getting there but I don't have any magic answers I'm afraid that people haven't already suggested.

If you say "ok your job is to clean the bathroom", then they just LEAVE it

That isn't effective delegating. You haven't told him what exactly he has to do (what needs cleaning, what he should use to clean it, etc.), when he is expected to do it and to what standard. These things may be obvious to you but they may not be so obvious to him.

I wouldn't actually do it, but if I did write up a list of what needs to be done at home on a regular basis, I think he'd be stunned, or think I'm making work, one or the other.

Also, reading back about my standards etc. My home isn't a show home, it wasn't when I had more time, I don't expect that at all. I like things tidyish and put away when they aren't used, and to keep on top of stuff like washing, washing up, paperwork. That's all. I don't mind a bit of dust, the hoover only comes out a couple of times a week, the bedding isn't changed weekly by any means. It's a comfortable family home, but what I don't want to do is plough through crap every evening to get in the door and have to clear a space on the sofa to sit down, wash up a plate to eat .....

Maybe he does need more 'instruction', maybe I am assuming that every adult knows how to clean a bathroom or empty a dishwasher. I asked him this morning if he had time to make our bed .... the answer
"Why, we are getting back in it later and no-one is here to look at it all day".

Love the idea of post it notes allocating little jobs - the kids can take one or two each day and then have their gadgets back when they're done .

I feel a bit sorry for your DH. :( Your career is taking off, his has hugely changed, his kids don't listen to him unless he bellows and renovating the house is all finished so he isn't even "irreplaceable" in that way any more.

The dishwasher thing would drive me INSANE though. Reminds me of my ex, who'd load the dishwasher by putting dirty stuff on the worktop above it. Yeah - cheers.

I just want you to give him a massive hug, kiss him half to death, then sit down with everyone and dole more chores out to the kids.