To ask how I can explain to DH why page 3 was wrong?

[Ifyourawizardwhydouwearglasses]

He just thinks it was harmless. 'If you don't like it, don't look.' I'd like to educate him but I can't seem to find the words.

He's intelligent but can't seem to get this one.

You are also coming across as a bit dim

And literal.

Do you get out much? Maybe if you tried to interact more with people in real life you would understand a bit more about why some people have views which are unlike yours.

For instance, next time you are on the bus or a train, sitting next to a teenage girl and staring at page 3, rather than thinking whatever it is you usually think while you do that, maybe try and take notice of the reactions of some of the people around you. After a few times you might notice that not everyone is very relaxed about it. Some people may look uncomfortable, embarassed, or distressed. Occasionally someone might move, or look as if they want to. I assume that you wouldn't feel uncomfortable carrying out that experiment a few times, even if you don't usually travel by train or whatever I'm sure the opportunity will come up some time.

I don't understand what the reference to child care is. Is it because I said I don't like it when young teens are sexually harassed? Don't you care about that?

"For somebody who equates themself with a god + an absolute monarch, to be preaching on the lack of ethics to someboy who equates themselves with child caring is beyond the pale."

For someone who's created his user name based on that of a famous nanny agency to not give a tiny stuff about the impact on young girls of page three is hypocrisy ranker than a skunk's bottom.

HTH.

Omni - he's named himself after the Norland Nannies, who are kinda the Eton of nanny training.

Try and contain your hilarity.

...I know it'll be tough and I do have a safety pin if your sides split!

Riigggghhhttttt.....

Not sure I get it. Can't say I'm terribly troubled by that!

Good lord!

I've stated I only take the ST.

I don't catch buses and I only travel in First on the train where tabloids are banned. As I don't go to work on Sundays, I don't take the train; ergo, I'm not likely to be sat next to any teenage girls soon. I did ask my 27 year-old daughter about the furore and she laughed and said 'whatever Dad'

Anybody read the comments about Charlie Hunnam's arse in Sons of Anarchy?

I have to say I see the 'you are just a hypocrite' argument bandied about a lot by blokes when it comes to feminism, usually when they have run out of arguments.

Yesterday I got told I was a hypocrite for objecting to page 3 because I sometimes wear false eyelashes for special occasions, which is buying into the idea that women have to look a certain way. The same person said that Harriet Harman was a hypocrite because she objected to page 3 but went on television with dyed hair and make up on, but an hour earlier they had said of another NMP3 campaigner, 'oh look what a surprise, that anti page 3'campaigner is really ugly'.

So what exactly are the rules under which women would be allowed to object? Are you only allowed to object if you are naturally gorgeous and don't wear make up/dye your hair/wear anything more than a sack?

So given the opportunity you wouldn't carry out the experiment?

But if you had the opportunity, you would be happy to do so, right? Sit down next to a 14yo girl and open the Sun wide on Page 3 and stare at it for 5 mins and surreptitiously see if the people around you are all quite comfortable, and do it a few times to get a good "read" on it?

How about pressing your leg against hers while you do the staring, and see how comfortable she looks while you do the staring.

You could try looking openly at her chest a few times as well, or would that be pushing the edges of your comfort zone?

< jumps into thread >

< ta daaaaaa >

Norland, would you like to create another pretendy "argument" based on my username? Go for your life.

Anybody read the comments about Charlie Hunnam's arse in Sons of Anarchy?

Was Charlie Hunnam's arse on the third page of a national family paper for no other reason than it looked good? Why don't they print a daily photo of an 18 year old male arse, accompanied by a patronising quote from the arse owner about the day's news, in The Sun I wonder?

I would also suggest that if you are never in a public situation where women and girls are forced into close quarters with men who are perusing page 3, maybe you are "out of touch" with the issue and not really in a position to comment?

I mean. You don't read it, you are not in situations where people don't like it, you have never been a teenage girl or young (or indeed older) woman on the receving end of some page3 facilitated creepiness. So all of this is just an academic exercise to you, and you can merrrily blibber on about freedom of speech or whatever your argument is safe in the knowledge that this has never negatively impacted you in your daily life and never will.

What you don't realise is that effectively saying you don't give a stuff about random men doing all sorts of creepy shit to young girls makes people disinclined to sympathise with your position.

I have to say I see the 'you are just a hypocrite' argument bandied about a lot by blokes when it comes to feminism, usually when they have run out of arguments.

Do you still beat your husband?

They must be loving this at Wapping. 'Outraged-hairy-armpitted-Guardian-reading-lefties on MN are seething over The Sun....' Fuel for their PR campaign. They'll be pointing all their advertisers at this thread.

Are you saying, that your view is the owners of The Sun should be acting in a way that will benefit society (as you see society in 2015) as opposed to trying to sell copies of their rag, to enhance their profits?

Yes I am. You have a problem with that?

Are you really so naive as to think a picture of a semi-naked woman, is anything other than a method of selling more of their product, thus making their product more attractive to advertisers, thus increasing the profits of News International?

Until the Twitter stunt they pulled today, I would've have thought it was mainly about profits. Now I think differently. I think they have proven that they want to put women in their place, that women's role in the Sun (and in wider society) is purely decorative and sexualised. And any woman arguing against this is to be slapped down. Hard.

And that's not good for any woman - not even your 27yr old daughter.

Hmm not huge eloquence there in some places but hopefully the gist came across!

^Third para should be in italics - it's a quote from the lovely Norland.

*< jumps into thread >

< ta daaaaaa >

Norland, would you like to create another pretendy "argument" based on my username? Go for your life.*

Any thoughts on what impressionable young girls reading MN think about the prevalence of profanity?
Will that encourage them to utilise the language of the building-site or tap-room?
Will they assume that some user names mean random shagging of any stranger is acceptable?
Does the increased post count per thread have a beneficial affect on MN's advert-rate?

Ah. And now we have an assumption about what women who don't like page 3 look like.

It's all so pathetically predictable isn't it.

I am hot as fuck, for what it's worth.

HTH.

Do you still beat your husband?

Sorry you've lost me - actually you lost me quite a few posts back.

Oh and I shave my armpits when I can be arsed - i guess that makes me a hypocrite as well doesn't it?

They'll be pointing all their advertisers at this thread.

I sincerely doubt that.

And my armpits are not hairy - and FYI it wouldn't matter one fig if they were. Your posts are ignorant and pathetic.

What the fuck?

You really are grasping at straws aren't you.

Mumsnet - the site with fucking swearing. And the cunting biscuits.

for Norland

God-regal-ruler said:

'Ah. And now we have an assumption about what women who don't like page 3 look like.'

Do you? I put words into the mouth(s) of what might be said in Wapping Towers, hence the quotation marks (grammar not your thing?)

'I am hot as fuck, for what it's worth.'

Open a window? Turn the heating down?

HTH.

Not really.

I like the fact that the (current) self appointed defender of page 3 on MN has clearly blanched at the idea of going around on public transport sitting next to teenage girls and staring at it for ages.

I assume this because he apparently is never in a position where he could carry out that experiment, and then failed to answer the question about whether he would if he found himself in a situation where he could do so.

Your posts make you sound like the worst sort of paternalistic sexist twat, Norland

It's just bizarre isn't it.

Woman: I hate page 3 because when I was a schoolgirl / young woman men used to use it to be creepy at me
Man: Free speech HA and anyway you smell

Right.