To ask how I can explain to DH why page 3 was wrong?

[Ifyourawizardwhydouwearglasses]

He just thinks it was harmless. 'If you don't like it, don't look.' I'd like to educate him but I can't seem to find the words.

He's intelligent but can't seem to get this one.

[GirlWithaPearlEarring]

I do agree that children shouldn't be subjected to pictures of half naked women with their tits out at the breakfast table (although anyone who really believes The Sun is a Family Paper needs their head tested in my opinion)

But this is small fry isn't it? And a little bit late. I mean Page 3 was more shocking 20 odd years ago when access to porn was relatively harder to come by. Nowadays page 3 is hardly considered porn as the internet caters for every fetish in ever increasing extremes at the touch of a button.

Is there a campaign to stop female pop stars from simulating sex with their fanjos all but on display and giving the message to young women that to be famous you have to sexually objectify yourself in music videos and on stage? The influence of such people on young girls self image is considerably more potent than that of any page 3 model.

Really I think these two areas ought to be tackled first. Putting a stop to page three feels a bit like cleaning the fridge first when the toilet is running over.

[SlicedAndDiced]

To be honest just read some of the comments under mumsnets post about this on facebook.

It's quite clear from some of the insults being flung at women in that comments section by men that this is just the tip of the iceberg.

[YouBetterWerk]

I don't know about the Countdown stuff, but I do know The Sun used to "introduce" some Page 3 girls on their 16th birthdays, ... which meant that the photos had to be taken a day or two before that.
And I remember seeing a documentary some time in the late 1980s about a wannabe Page 3 girl auditioning with her mother; the girl herself was only about 14 or 15 at the time but they showed her doing topless auditions so that she could start off as soon as she was old enough.
shudder

[YonicScrewdriver]

The Charlotte church countdown happened but was some internet random, IIRC.

Girl, the point about NMP3 is it is actually pretty easy to stop. It's one newspaper owned by one consortium and the decision would ultimately have been in the hands of, what, less than 5 people?

The music industry has no such simple solution.

[Nancy66]

That was The Sport

[GirlWithaPearlEarring]

'The music industry has no such simple solution.'

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be tackled as a priority. IMO it is more important than eliminating page 3. All the publicity given to the stop the page 3 campaign could have been given to the issue of particularly famous pop stars sending girls and boys seriously screwed up messages about how women can achieve in the 21st century. All I'm saying.

[YonicScrewdriver]

But publicity doesn't work like that, Girl. And I doubt the NMP3 campaigners won't find another pertinent issue.

I'd rather a series of campaigns with small but significant impact than a big campaign that struggles to make progress.

[YouBetterWerk]

Girl, I and many others agree, why not start a petition for it then?
That's the good thing about campaigns, it's perfectly possible to support more than one at the same time.

[YonicScrewdriver]

I would definitely sign a petition that made the broadcast of music channels in the Uk subject to the watershed - hate going to cafés with kids and being subjected to Anaconda on mute or whatever.

I think that seeking a step like that is more likely to be successful than changing the video content altogether.

[GirlWithaPearlEarring]

I agree with your sentiments Yonic and ultimately I am very happy to see the end of page 3. It is the scale of impact that it can possibly have in amongst all that is instantly available now that I question. The say the impact will be significant. I question this.

[RoyallyFuckedOff]

Yes, feminism is about choice. But it's alsonabout equality for all women not just individuals. So it's what's good for women as a class.

Unfortunately not everything a woman does promotes those things. Geddit??

So 18 year old Lucy from Wiltshire getting her tits out is technically fine. Her choice. However in the real world the rest of woman kind has to deal with sexism. So we have to deal with all issues that affect all women.

Some of these issues will be made by powerful men (generally) in government.

Some of these issues will be created by powerful men (generally) in the media.

Some of the issues will come form Powerful men (generally) in region.

Now I do not blame Lucy she's probably too fucking young to know better. She's just one person in a billion pound game that thinks she is doing what is best for her. But I do blame the media that is making a helluva lot of money off Lucy while selling out all women as not being interesting enough to be in a newspaper with out having their kit off.

If my 4 year old asks me why a woman has her boobs out in a newspaper next to me on a train. What should my answer be? Sorry sweetie, men want to look at boobs ALL the time at any time. And so even though it's only women being looked at and it's solely for men this is Ok and you should not worry your pretty little head about it. Because hey this one woman thought it was a good idea so even though you will one day be a teenager sitting next to a dirty old man reading this paper and feeling uncomfortable... Lucy CHOSE this. Because feminism.

[LadyBlaBlah]

I am so pleased it has gone. I remember as a child the first time I saw a Page 3, it made me incredibly uncomfortable - a really odd shock feeling - I guess it's a "oh, that's what I'm for" realisation.

Clearly, this is a small victory and I struggle with the arguments about free speech and that girls (yuk) have freely chosen to do this. I guess it's because that this is a reflection of what shit choices are given to girls (yuk)

If it is an 'opportunity' to be paid £300 (I'm pretty sure that's about all they get with no paid holidays or even repeat work) and be deemed a sex object for the rest of your life in a sort of admiring yet degrading way, then I despair at the opportunities available for 'good money' for girls

[RoyallyFuckedOff]

Clearly, this is a small victory and I struggle with the arguments about free speech and that girls (yuk) have freely chosen to do this. I guess it's because that this is a reflection of what shit choices are given to girls (yuk)

Considering the Sun regular features teenagers and has featured 16 year old, I don't think girls is inaccurate. [sigh]

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

By saying that a woman with her tits out cannot possibly be seen as anything other than an object to be used, you are repressing their autonomous sexuality.

Their sexuality? Do you honestly believe that every "page 3 girl" was a hardcore exhibitionist who did it for the sake of her own fetish?
This is really not about women's sexuality, but male entitlement to (frequently teenage) tits in the news paper.
I'm glad the page 3 softporn is gone, it shouldn't have been there in the first place.

[MsBojangles]

It's back in tomorrow's paper, apparently

[maresedotes]

Just reported on BBC News that it was a joke and they are not stopping Page 3. Hilarious aren't they? Twats.

[Cocolepew]

No! Really?
Pricks.

[HiawathaDidntBotherTooMuch]

I just saw this too. Isn't it great?

[SelfLoathing]

I'm not sure "was wrong" is the right tense.


www.theguardian.com/media/mediamonkeyblog/2015/jan/21/daily-star-proud-to-continue-the-great-british-page-3-tradition

[Cocolepew]

Tomorrows Sun

[Cocolepew]

Tomorrows Sun

[Cocolepew]

Sorry always I always end up doing multiple picture posts

[Patsyandeddie]

Sam fox was one of the most successful page three girls of the late 80s early 90s, she ended up being one of the wealthiest women in Britain, can someone explain to me how she was exploited? All I can say is if I had been her age and blessed with her boobs I would have had my kit off in an instant, for gods sake get a grip, we've all got them in different shapes and sizes, it's only our attitude that's the problem!

[Tinks42]

Its a move in the right direction where Im concerned. I was delighted!

I'd tell him its bloody derogatory to women.

Id also tell Sam Fox that or any other page three "model" too.

Any woman that doesn't believe that is so badly conditioned or stupid.

[HelenaDove]

So they were lying about getting rid of page 3 then

Well theyve never told any other lies.......oh wait!

There was a rather big fib in 1989!