To ask how I can explain to DH why page 3 was wrong?

[Ifyourawizardwhydouwearglasses]

He just thinks it was harmless. 'If you don't like it, don't look.' I'd like to educate him but I can't seem to find the words.

He's intelligent but can't seem to get this one.

[GallicIsCharlie]

What absolute crap. If we all had the right words to express all our feelings & beliefs all the time, we wouldn't benefit from hearing one another, would we? If you've never said "Yes! That's exactly what I was trying to say!" you must be either a poor listener or a poor thinker.

[partialderivative]

I am delighted that we may have seen the end of the cringing page 3 topless model, as has been pointed out many times, it has no place in a 'family' newspaper. And plenty of other worthwhile arguments.

However, I do not think the 'tits aren't news' argument is very strong. There are many things in a newspaper that aren't news (crosswords, cartoons, opinion...)

I am also not really convinced that the Sun is a newspaper at all.

[bobblehead]

what happened to the page 7 fella?

[ArmyDad]

"I am also not really convinced that the Sun is a newspaper at all."

Nail on the head!

[CaramellaDeVille]

at the countdown to Sam Fox turning 16. That's just disgusting.

I am so happy The Sun have taken this step. I don't know why anybody buys that rubbish, with or without the bare boobs?!

[TheresaMayNot]

I too struggle with finding the right words with DH and my 2 teenage boys.

I've tried the 'what if it was me, or Granny, or your young cousin' or 'how would you feel about men flashing their whatsits on p3' and they think all that would be absolutely fine too, it would be their free choice and people are not forced to look. Grrr!

[LumpySpacedPrincess]

Are people really, really thick or something?

It isn't about nudity, it's about objectification and a drip drip drip effect that de humanizes half the population. A mild image in a national newspaper has more impact that porn you have to look for.

It isn't about a woman's choice to be a topless model, I fully support that choice. However, if that choice has a huge negative impact on the rest of her gender then I think it should stop.

Imagine if everyday there was a picture of a black man with a snide little comment about colin from colchester blah blah blah. It wouldn't happen because people could instantly see it was nasty and racist.

[bumblebeerat]

My dh was the same until one day I randomly joked it's only there for builders to w*#k over! He for some reason was horrified at this and now thinks it's disgusting and that if they want that sort of thing they should buy something other than a newspaper. I still don't think he gets the point but he's anti it anyway.

[CaffeLatteIceCream]

Why do you have to explain how it's "wrong"? Are you Queen of the Universe or something getting to decide what's right and what's wrong?

Explain why YOU think it's wrong and why YOU don't like it. If he feels something different then that's that.

And, btw...it's perfectly possible to be intelligent and disagree with your point of view!

[elportodelgato]

I suggest you show your DH this short YouTube video. The no more page 3 people did an experiment where they cut out all the images of men and women from the Sun and stuck them into a collage to show how each gender is represented on a daily basis:

The insidious thing about page 3 is that quite frequently the biggest image of a woman in the whole paper is a woman with her breasts out. What does that say about how we value women's contributions to society? My daughters need to know that they have value above and beyond being wank fodder for white van man.

If you want to look at tits, I've heard there are some on the internet somewhere if you look hard enough for them but it's inappropriate to have them in a family newspaper.

[gamerchick]

The husband mentioned it.. I just said it's a sign of the times. I can't get worked up over a paper I don't buy and still won't buy.

[BathtimeFunkster]

It's not really possible to be intelligent and think titty pictures of women in newspapers to show men that women are second class citizens are a reasonable idea.

[Dragonfly71]

A couple of pp's have said why does it matter? If my husband couldn't see the problem with page 3 I would be seriously questioning our relationship. Because he is meant to love and respect me as an equal. If he thought a national paper objectifying women in this way was ok, I would question that. That's why it would matter to me. Maybe op is of a similar opinion.

[Nicknacky]

dragon You would possibly leave a partner because he didn't have an issue with page 3? I think that's an over reaction.

[Seff]

To me, it's similar to the way that when Nicola Sturgeon became leader of the SNP, the focus was on how she looked and what she was wearing. When there are awards ceremonies, it's only the women who are judged on what they wore, not the men. The circled pictures in magazines pointing out bits of hair, or wrinkles, or a bit of sweat and ridiculing them.

Women are judged on looks first, and ability second. Men are judged on ability first and second.

Society pits women against women, to the point that it seems perfectly acceptable to have pictures of half naked women on page 3 simply for the viewing pleasure of men.

As others have said, it's a drip feed that doesn't just include page 3, but many forms of media. The fact that most of us barely notice it, proves how effective it is.

[seaweed123]

The thing i hated about page 3 is that it normalised objectification in day to day life.

If you want to look at porn in the privacy of your own home, then that is up to you. But I don't think I (or more to the point, young girls) should have to sit next to someone on the bus who is looking at tits

[elportodelgato]

Nickynack, yes, I would not want to be with a partner who didn't see the problem with page 3 [and looking at the relationship board on here, I think a lot of women would benefit from having these kinds of conversations before shacking up / having kids with someone who then (surprise!) turns out not to respect women]

[Nicknacky]

I could understand the viewpoint about a partner of he was buying it purely to view, or pinning the images on the wall. But not just having a personal opinion that has no effect on his partner.

[JassyRadlett]

How can it not affect his partner, assuming his partner is a woman? It says something about his views of the objectification and status of women - or the fact he just doesn't care about those issues.

[BathtimeFunkster]

My partner's opinions about the status of women have a massive impact on my life.

[Nicknacky]

If it is merely his opinion that he doesn't particularly get annoyed with page 3 and his actions in no way objectify women, then no, it doesn't affect his partner.

There is probably lots of issues that my h cares about and I dont and vice versa. And I respect his opinion is his own.

[BathtimeFunkster]

Men who think the sexual objectification of women to reinforce men's status is "harmless" always have a negative effect on the lives of women.

[fluffyraggies]

DH and i have 4 DDs. From 11 months to 22 years old.

DH likes to wind me up (when we're alone) by pretending not to understand feminism. He gets it really. He's got 5 women in the house! We both know i know he's pretending, but it winds me up just the same. He doesn't buy The Sun, but it's the news paper of choice in the tea hut at work, so he sees it everyday.

Happy to see on MN couple of evenings ago that page 3 is on it's way out finally, i mentioned it to DH. He said something along the lines of 'meh, no big deal'. I said 'how about keep p.3 and have a 17 year old boys arse on p.4' every day as well?

His immediate (and honest gut) reaction ... ' UGH, why would i want to see that in a news paper every bloody morning?!'

I rested my case! Ex bloody actly! So why the fuck has it been ok to have naked tits in a news paper every morning for so long? Huh?

He laughed. I won :)

[Willferrellisactuallykindahot]

In a free world we should be able to decide whether we want equality or whether we want to be an object.

An ironic statement given that page 3 represents the huge gaping inequalities that still exist between men and women. Page 3 has never featured a hige picture of a 16/17/18 year old male with his arse out or his cock showing through his pants, complete with a patronising 'quote' from them about that day's news.

And I don't want live in a society where a woman possibly momentarily exposing a bit of nipple as she uses her breasts for their primary purpose, is a 'grey area' and worthy of debate, but a woman with her breasts fully exposed in a national newspaper for no reason other than for male pleasure is, as DH put it, 'an institution'.

Page 3 is part of something much bigger and very insidious. It is part of the drip feeding to both the males and females of our society that women are nothing more than a pair of tits and a set of holes.

[Willferrellisactuallykindahot]

fluffyraggies all that (right down to the winding me up about feminism!) sounds exactly like me and my DH. Except we don't have 4 DDs (2 women to deal with is enough for DH)