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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To stop seeing friend with awful daughter?

139 replies

Idontneedanotherhero · 20/01/2015 14:25

I have a friend with a dd the same age as mine (2), we met at a baby massage class when the children were a couple of months old, she lives in the next street so we've fallen into a pattern of attending toddler groups etc together. Her dd has got steadily more unruly, and keeps attacking my daughter! Before Christmas she scratched her face so badly the scar is still there, her mother just shrugs and says "children will be children". I had a bit of a break over Christmas but decided to try again - today she attacked my daughter 3 times at a toddler group and also tried to bite her. She now has scratches all down her face again and my DH is going to be furious! AIBU to tell this woman that we won't be seeing them again until she starts to discipline / control her child? I'm not one for confrontation but a) I need to protect my dd and b) I don't want her learning this behaviour! Has anyone got any advice for me? Am furious really!

OP posts:
Flomple · 20/01/2015 16:34

I can see why you'd do that.

Just be careful on how you judge her. My eldest was like your DD and always on the receiving end but my younger one was dreadful, and it wasn't because I laughed it off or ignored it. It was awful. I disagree with yves, sometimes I could see it coming but it was way harder to deal with and keep on top of than she suggests and DD sustained quite a few injuries over 18 months or so.

My bitey 2 year old is now a popular Y1 whose teacher describes him as kind, gentle, helpful and a good friend. He runs a mile from the more physical play in the playground. It honestly was just a phase... Albeit a ridiculously long one.

sockmatcher · 20/01/2015 16:38

Discipline actually means to teach not punish. Your friend isn't doing either though.

As she won't intervene I would be very direct.

Text her and explain why you won't be seeing her again. Explain you are protecting your child because she doesn't intervene to stop it happening.

Its just lazy parenting in my opinion. I socialise with people who parent in very different ways. I'm highly respectful of their views but if a child hurts my child I expect the adult to explain why we don't hurt each other and be prepared to be more active in stopping it in the future.

Allingoodfaith · 20/01/2015 16:39

op avoid them.

Only on here do some posters expect their/your children to be put in positions where they are regularly harmed. It's bizarre ! Do some posters genuinely not give a shit when there small children are being hurt? Confused

My dd1 has gotten to the grand old age of 19 with out ever being attacked at play group or play dates. I also teach children sport so it's not a 'run of the mill' thing there either.

ohtheholidays · 20/01/2015 17:02

I would avoid her and I'd tell her if she asked that it's because she doesn't discipline her LO when they've hurt your LO.

I know lot's of posters think that you shouldn't tell her but if you don't her child could go on to loose a lot of friends over the coming years.

And most Nursery's won't tolerate biting once the child is over 3 years old.I've worked in quite a few different nursery's and they all had a no biting policy.If a child over 3 bit another child they were removed from the nursery and this was council run and private nursery's.

And just to reassure you(despite some posters stating that your next child's behavior might be like your friends child's)we have 5DC and two of our children are autistic,none of our children have ever bit or scratched or hurt another child,quite the opposite.They're all very loving towards other children and have always stepped in to stand up for other children from a very young age.

magoria · 20/01/2015 17:14

My DS was badly scratched at nursery. At nearly 14 the marks are still quite visible in daylight.

Your job is to protect DD. If that means you don't see this person for a while or meet without DC that is the way to go.

lunar1 · 20/01/2015 17:27

If the mum is so lazy she is not keeping her child's nails very short then chances are she is too lazy to sort the problem out. You are doing the right thing fro your child.

NancyRaygun · 20/01/2015 17:29

I think it would be wise, if you do want see them again, to only see them on your turf or neutral and to point out the bad behaviour calmly and clearly at the time. So, as soon as the girl looks like she is going to strike say "right, none of that thank you. We play nicely here, no hitting" etc

Yes, its annoying for the other Mum but if she is not going to say anything then you can.

I would never usually advocate telling other people how to parent but having a no hitting/scratching rule is a no brainer.

mumpossible · 20/01/2015 17:31

This thread is making me feel awful. I have a 2 yr old who often hits pushes and throws things at other children. We always emphasise how much he has hurt the other child, ask.him to say sorry, and remove him from the situation. So far it is having very little effect . I am so sad to hear that other mothers are judging me and my son. He really can't help it yet. He's 2, with poor impulse control and limited understanding of the consequences of hitting etc..He is not a nasty boy.
What would you want me and other parents in this situation to do?really?

YourMaNoBraBackOfMyCar · 20/01/2015 17:33

Also the person I mentioned in my earlier post genuinely didn't seem to give a toss. ( or so it seemed at times) She was quick to point out where other people were going wrong and told me that I was chaotic because I didn't have a set routine. Hmm anyway I digress. We were at soft play, her ds (now 4) when not lashing out at my dd or poking my newborn dd in the face hard kept trying to pull a little girl (between 18-24 months old at a guess) from a little soft roundabout. He shouldn't have been in that area. But followed me in. I kept trying to distract him, I told my friend, I even walked him hand in hand away a few times but he went straight back to the girl. A while later I'm feeding dd and then friend is sat at the side next to me and we hear an ear piercing scream, I could see a lady telling my friends ds to go away while wiping the childs arm. I tell my friend that her ds has just bitten a toddler and to go get him and apologise before the parent came to us. I could see the mother scanning the area and she just ignored me. a woman presumably the girls grandma spots us and marches over at which point my friend runs off to the cafe leaving me to take the blame. ShockThe woman tells me through gritted teeth that my son has just bitten the girl so hard that he drew blood and what was I going to do? I directed her to my friend at the counter at which point she dumps her tray and walks outside. I tried ringing her and she dropped my call. That was it for me. I scooped up my kids and left. She ran after me as I passed and had the utter gall to berate me for leaving her ds inside. He was monopolising the ball pool when I left. There were staff about. He was ok. I on the other hand was close to tears and felt utterly used. I told her not to contact me for a while but I gave her another chance a few weeks later. I felt for her I really did. I have expericed it from both perspectives. Dd2 turned out to be not to dissimilar to her ds. The difference is that I don't deflect my childs behaviour on to others, and I don't let others take the flak. We've gotten through the worst of it and now she's a bright, kind and loving 5 year old. She still has her moments. But no matter how bad it seemed I never stood by while she hit out and never refused to acknowledge her behaviour.

NancyRaygun · 20/01/2015 17:40

Hey mumpossible don't worry! You say: We always emphasise how much he has hurt the other child, ask.him to say sorry, and remove him from the situation.

That is brilliant. Its wrong to be too harsh on a toddler, NONE of them are perfect despite what their Grandparents may think! I don't believe the poster upthread who said their kid never got hit, it is all part of the toddler experience. The problem is if the parent does nothing or its repeat offending on one particular friend and then not dealt with. I would honestly not judge a 2 year old - just a baby- for hitting, they have no empathy. Its a parenting thing. This thread has a shit title - the daughter is not awful, the mum is not awful but the OP feels she isn't dealing with the scratching. So...

Mintyy · 20/01/2015 17:42

mumpossible
There was a woman I knew vaguely and used to see at toddler group and then I didn't see her for about a year. When I said "Hi, haven't seen you for ages" she said "I know, I had to stop coming to groups like this because I just found it impossible to prevent ds from hurting other children."

It was a phase and she knew he would grow out of it (she had two older children) and decided to remove him from the situation for her sake, as well as all the little children who were being hurt.

Honestly, if your child was physically hurt and scratched all the time by one particular individual, wouldn't you want to protect him/her from that?

YourMaNoBraBackOfMyCar · 20/01/2015 17:43

Mumpossible I understand what you're saying and would say that you are doing the right thing. I would never judge someone for that. If your child hit and pushed mine and you appeared and told him to stop, apologise and remove him from the situation if needed then I'd appreciate your efforts and not judge you in the slightest. Like I said I've been there on both sides. I've had the feeling where I'm kicking myself and thinking " that's right! Let dd be his punchbag yet again..." Then I've been sat at rhyme time with dd who refuses to sit and join in, stomping around shouting, taking the puppets off the other kids etc etc Blush

OfaFrenchMind · 20/01/2015 17:43

I was a biter. My mom bit me (gently). I never bit again :)

YANBU to steer clear of the mother-daughter.

ILovePud · 20/01/2015 17:47

mumpossible you are doing everything that any other reasonable parent would expect. All two year olds do this sometimes and many go through phases were they do it a lot of the time, it will pass. What you've described is worlds away from what the OP has described in terms of her friends response.

SolomanDaisy · 20/01/2015 17:54

I'm not judging you mumpossible. And it's the people who don't judge that you end up being friends with, if you're a non-judger too. I actually made friends with someone in the street after we kept seeing each other with our two year-old s in various states of stropiness. We smiled sympathetically and eventually met properly at a toddler group.

Original poster
Idontneedanotherhero · 20/01/2015 18:05

Mumpossible it was never my intention to make anyone feel bad, and of course we come across other toddlers who behave like this, and of course my dd will do so sometimes, my problem is that she is consistently being physically hurt and upset by one child whose parent is not prepared to even try and stop this, and like others have said it's my duty to protect her as best I can, so if the other child is never removed from the situation, then with regret I have to remove mine. Might I add I have persevered with this for over 7 months since this behaviour started and hovered over them, but still, even when I'm right there it happens! And no help is forthcoming from the other quarter. I don't feel I have any other choice sadly.

OP posts:
ChocLover2015 · 20/01/2015 18:09

As I said above, could you not just make it physically impossible for her to get at your DD?

lovelydoggies · 20/01/2015 18:11

Before Christmas she scratched her face so badly the scar is still there, her mother just shrugs and says "children will be children"..........
But her child isn't acting like a normal child. I had 4 and I can honestly say not one of them ever behaved like that......The poster who said "Its not nice but it happens" yes it most likely does but not consistently from the same child. Its unacceptable and the blame lies entirely with the parents. It's not normal behaviour.

Original poster
Idontneedanotherhero · 20/01/2015 18:16

I've tried! But there's no trigger, she just turns on her when I'm right there and they seem to be playing nicely, but suddenly she goes for her, of course I immediately pull my dd away but sometimes, like today, the damage has been done ....

OP posts:
Theboodythatrocked · 20/01/2015 18:19

mum you are doing all the right things though and teaching your child correct behaviour and so of course you will get there.

Asxa reception class TA I saw all this behaviour but it was the 4 year olds with the wishy washy parents who continued acting like this and of course it's their children who suffer in the end.

Excluding those with sn of course.

It's obviously the way some toddlers are but it's the way parents deal with it that's key.

If as an adult a friend kept biting and scratching me I wouldn't want to be made to see them.

MoanCollins · 20/01/2015 18:20

I actually remember another child who constantly attacked me as a child, how frightening it was and it was worse because my mother was ineffectual at stopping it. I have sympathy for the problems this toddler and her mother are having, but it's not your daughters place to take the fall out and you must stop seeing them for her sake.

Theboodythatrocked · 20/01/2015 18:22

lovely agree my 4 were no angels but to consistently attack other children with no provocation or trigger is worrying 2 years or not.

Original poster
Idontneedanotherhero · 20/01/2015 18:25

I really must stop for her sake. Also, a while ago after one of these incidents, my dd pushed another child in the same way. I took her to one side and explained that she should not behave like this and why, and luckily she seemed to take it in and hasn't done it again. But by placing her in this situation I feel like I'm normalising it and she will begin to think she can do this to other children, and I'm not having that!

OP posts:
duplodon · 20/01/2015 18:26

I just don't believe there are many educated people who genuinely 'do nothing' when their kids attack. I think they maybe remove them or talk to them in a way that doesn't match what the reciever's parent wants e.g. some sort of harsh consequence, preferably roared at a shame faced kid.

I had a biter and a bitee, and my bitee had two quite severe bites. I assumed it was one of those things and not the result of feckless parents who couldn't discipline their awful children.

duplodon · 20/01/2015 18:28

I don't.. you are talking about a TWO year old. A TWO year old. Maybe your little darling just... you know... pushed. As she is two.