To think donating someone's organs without their consent is a serious ethical issue..

[BabyX]

I'm referring to the news today that a newborn baby's organs have been donated after doctors diagnosed her, at birth, as brain-dead. Her parents have been able to give the chance of life to others, I see that. The recipients and their families must be incredibly relieved and grateful. Hopefully that will comfort the parents of the baby, who is now, of course, dead. Organs can only be taken while the donor is still alive.

But AIBU to think you cannot just decide to give away the organs of another human being without their consent? Is it our choice to make?

I'm not sure if I am unreasonable to think this or not. I may just be clouded by sadness at the death of this poor baby who never got a chance at life. It's heartbreaking. Had my child not survived her birth, the thought of carving her up for parts is horrifying.

I do not mean to be disrespectful, I'm just struggling to concur with the general reaction that this is a wonderful "selfless" act.

Vaccinating is an interesting one, because the option that is best for your individual child is probably for everyone else to be vaccinated but to refuse vaccinations for your child. So immunising a child is done as much for the good of others as it is for the good of your own child.

Olympicsrock, thank you so much for that description. It brought years to my eyes. It's so important for people to know the truth: that organ donation procedures are performed with incredible compassion and care.

To all the people in the thread whose loved ones have donated: the words 'thank you' are not enough. I can't imagine a more amazing, selfless, priceless gift.

(Sorry - tears, obvs, not 'years')

Dh and I have discussed this at length. As hard as it would be, we would want to donate dd's organs, I hope to Christ we never have to make that choice, but if she was ill we would of course want a donor, so it would be hypocritical not to.

We are both blood donors, and would wish our organs to be donated.

Ledkr, I am so so delighted for your son what fantastic news! I wasn't going to click on this thread as the OP was so distasteful but I am glad I did now. I wish him many years of health and happiness in his future xx

Sauvignon, I hope that your husband is doing well at the moment too x

I am coming up almost 8 years since I had my double organ transplant. The reason I am here today is thanks to the selfless decision a grieving mother made on behalf of her son who had died in a tragic accident. I am in touch with her and after I wrote to her the first time, 6 months post transplant and explained to her how my life had been before transplant and how my life had been transformed by her wonderful sons' gift, she wrote back to me and told me that after having read my letter that she knew she had made the right decision on his behalf. I feel so incredibly privileged to carry his organs and I swore to my donors mum in that first letter that I would do everything I could to live my life to the fullest and honour his memory. I have had an amazing 8 years of good health and despite thinking that this could never be a possibility, I have had 2 healthy pregnancies and 2 DS's of my own since transplant. My first DS's middle name is my donors name in his memory.

I have seen a post where someone has said that they would rather die than receive an organ transplant. This is very easy to say (as admittedly the poster acknowledged) when one is in good health but surely it is in us to want to survive? I have shed many tears for my donor and his family and I am writing this now with tears in my eyes as it is such an emotive subject for me. I felt so guilty after my transplant that my donor had to lose his life and I felt guilty for being alive when he wasn't. Hearing from my donors mum helped so much and she and her son will be a special part of me forever. Statistically we are much more likely to need an organ transplant than to donate our own organs.

For those who have lost children and loved ones and have made the bravest decision to donate their organs, there are just no words to describe the gratitude that an organ recipient and their families feel with your gift of life. X

"I don't think the argument that parents give consent to medical treatment can be used for parents giving consent to organ donation. Whatever the rights and wrongs are. Because medical procedure is for the good of the child receiving it. Whereas organ donation is an entirely different thing altogether and is entirely for the benefit of the recipient. I did not agree with new born babies' organs being used in this way."

Viviennemary - if a newborn baby's parents are being asked to consider organ donation, there is zero chance of the baby surviving - they would have to be brain-dead. If you disallow organ donation from newborn babies, then not only will that baby die, but others npmay also die, or live severely limited lives, blighted by illness.

How is this a better option than organ donation from newborns?

What in the living fuck did OP want from this.

There isn't even a discussion, you OP have absolutely no comeback to anything that has been said.

As people have said babies cannot consent to anything. I think the issue of consent is much more of an issue when they're alive yet you haven't whinged about anything happening then have you?

An utterly disgusting, idiotic and cruel thread.

Sauvignon, that is just wonderful, you just be a great comfort.

Weird responses here. OP was questioning the ethics of an action. Far from disgusting, idiotic or cruel

I think what the parents did was great, but it's important we discuss things and don't shut down debate.

So quotes like 'carving up a baby' isn't disgusting?

So trying to debate the ethics of consent from a baby and one that has died is extremely idiotic. The OP has not aknowledged if she thinks giving drugs are unethical, or having operations, in fact everything we do with babies is non consensual. So this thread and 'discussion is idiotic and bollocks.

And how you cannot see the cruelty is beyond me.

To be honest Id rather not talk to anyone who thinks differently.

Far from disgusting, idiotic or cruel

Maybe re read the OP then. Particularly the second to last paragraph.

There is nothing to debate.

Yabvu, the parents consented on the babies behalf, it is lovely to know that those organs are going to save lives, not be buried in the ground or burned. It would be different, if the doctors took them without the parents consent, but they had the consent of the parents. What's the issue!

Also op, you do not have to donate your child's organs, but don't judge parents who do decide that their child's organs can save the lives of others. You might need them one day, I hope not, but you might.

Yes I am on the organ donor register myself, and would give my dead child;s organs so that others can have life. I would rather remember my child in those who they helped save, their organs are alive in somebody else, then buried or burned. What a waste.

Some beautiful and amazing stories on this thread

With regard to the OP's unpleasant turn of phrase (which I know she has apologized for) that sad fact is that no one's body remains intact after they die, no matter how beautiful, loved, successful or rich they were. It's very hard to do so, but if you can bring yourself to think about what happens to a body when it is buried or cremated then organ donation makes even more sense.

I've just created a E-petition for the change of the law to an opt-out status. As soon as it is active I'll share the link so anyone who wants to sign it can do. And then share the link with their friends and family x

@Ohfourfoxache

Thanks for considering Kate - completely understand x

Might step away until after tomorrow - feeling a bit fragile about it all this week

So sorry to hear that. Plenty of and in reserve for anyone else having a tough one

What a beautiful gift they have given to someone, the baby and the parents.

I will always be thankful for the man who donated his bone marrow to my kids father. It's slightly different I know, but thanks to him my kids got an extra year with their dad. I wish I could thank him.

Thank you to everyone who has shared their stories

I know Kate from head office has told everyone to 'leave it' but I am genuinely puzzled as to why organ donation is a problem for some people and particularly where babies are concerned? Not meaning to be thick but what is the issue? Religion? The mere thought of it? Possibility that doctors have got it wrong?

I personally would donate any organs from me and would give my children's organs too. My DS was stillborn so this wasn't an option but I salute those parents who made that brave and loving decision.

Would the OP and others who seem to be against it refuse organ donation for their children? Come on be honest. Because I'm afraid it's the gaping hole in your argument.

I'm not against it in the slightest, I'd agree to my own and my family's organs being used, and would support an opt-out system. I've had an organ donation card in my purse for 22 years.

But I can see that some people want to question the opt-out system (not so much the OP's question, I think we're all agreed that was right and admirable). Some people would see it as the state owning the rights to their body, let's be honest, it's a big thing and it's important to talk about it.

I have had an amazing 8 years of good health and despite thinking that this could never be a possibility, I have had 2 healthy pregnancies and 2 DS's of my own since transplant. My first DS's middle name is my donors name in his memory. Clucky

I cannot imagine the pain that losing a child at any age causes, I cannot imagine anything that would make me grieve less, but I think if I read that there were two happy healthy and much-loved lives in the world because of a transplant it would at least give me some comfort.

How humbling it is to read of the stories of bereaved parents, both those who were able to donate and those who weren't and those who have benefited from transplants. And how fortunate we are that don't have to walk that path.

Obviously this is a very emotive and upsetting topic. However, if there was no ethics question there would be no discussion nor lots of committees on medical ethics. So no point in calling people idiots for raising concerns. Personally, I think this latest is a very slippery slope.