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Original poster

To have an allergic reaction to this letter from school - is it misguided?

237 replies

Somethingtodo · 20/01/2015 09:55

I am fully supportive of a uniform policy and enforcing it - but fond the language below offensive for some reason - like to girls are to blame for sexual predators....how should I respond - want to make a point in a reasonable rational way...

Dear Parent/Guardian,
Urgent: Appropriate Uniform Standards
Unfortunately, I am forced to write to you again to request that you support our drive for every student to
attend school appropriately dressed. We must ask you to review the uniform your child has to ensure, for
instance, that skirts are of the appropriate length of decency. The school policy has always been that the
skirt needs to be knee length but some of our female students are not dressed appropriately with a normal
and reasonable standard of modesty. This is unacceptable and a safeguarding concern as some are
indecently placed halfway up the thigh. From next Monday 26th January 2015 I will strictly enforce this
basic expectation and any student wearing a skirt at an inappropriate length above their knee will be
issued with a serious sanction for flouting school expectations. I appreciate your full support in this as we
are work together to keep students safe.

OP posts:
Original poster
Somethingtodo · 22/01/2015 19:11

Ineed - CCC?

OP posts:
IneedAnameChangeForThisPost · 22/01/2015 19:11

Yep.

IneedAnameChangeForThisPost · 22/01/2015 19:17

I can pm you if you want?

Seff · 22/01/2015 19:20

Why has she felt the need to make an allegation if she thinks it was just an embarrassing misunderstanding? Is it actually possible to make a complaint against a teacher because, in her opinion, a teacher accidentally looked up her skirt? But that's not what you said. If she believes it was deliberate (you said she remains adamant it was), then they can't have the same story.

I'm not making a judgement either way, I'm not saying anyone is at fault. I said it seemed like you don't believe her because of the way you spoke about how to reinstate him, how can you ask her to reconsider, how do you support him as if she's the one 'in the wrong' rather than him. You sound convinced that it wasn't deliberate, even though the girl thinks it was. So if you believe him, it implies you don't believe her. Also that you have "made a private judgement" and the fact you say it only happened because she was wearing a short skirt.

I don't know the truth, I wasn't there. I don't know if he's in the wrong or not, I'm just saying the things you have said on this thread make it seem like you don't believe her that it was deliberate.

mathanxiety · 22/01/2015 19:46

The safeguarding issue I see is the attitude of the person who wrote that letter. The response indicates that the head has no clue what you are talking about and is in need of some serious enlightenment on the subject of victim blaming. When she speaks of 'the background to this letter' she is saying some girl's skirt caused some rapist to approach her.

Neither here nor there, but does she speak English as her first language? Apart from the massive problem in the content, the letters are poorly written imo.

IneedAnameChangeForThisPost · 22/01/2015 19:56

Ha, victim blaming is one of the words I wrote in an email to them.

motherinferior · 22/01/2015 21:43

Yep, a girl in a v short skirt has been approached, clearly. And she thinks if they wore longer skirts this wouldn't happen. Ignoring the fact some perve approached one of HER STUDENTS.

Nomama · 23/01/2015 11:05

Seff it is really obvious... they both tell the same version of events. It is in the interpretation of those events that they differ.

She feels that his actions were deliberate. She is mortified and angry in equal measure.

I cannot support him without it seeming that I do not support her - your continued posting and questioning my own beliefs is an example of that.

As it stands he is still on gardening leave and she is still angry.

I can only restate that I do not believe either of them acted maliciously and that this is one of those events that many teachers dread. There is no right/wrong solution...

Seff · 23/01/2015 11:30

You don't believe he acted maliciously, therefore you don't believe her view that he did. You said you have already made a judgement, implying you believe him. I don't know what the correct outcome is but the fact that you believe him shows that you don't believe her. As both things cannot be true.

I'm not trying to say you shouldn't support him, and that you shouldn't believe what you want to believe. I'm just trying to point out that you being so adamant that you believe him that it was a misunderstanding, means that you don't believe her that it was deliberate.

Seff · 23/01/2015 11:36

I'm not questioning your beliefs. I'm just going off what you have posted on this thread about what you believe.

Seff · 23/01/2015 11:42

Well, actually I suppose I am. You clearly believe him, therefore you don't believe her.

VivaLeBeaver · 23/01/2015 11:47

Be interesting to see how head justifys it.

Nomama · 23/01/2015 13:43

Too black and white, I am afraid.

The facts are not in question, he looked, he saw.

It is entirely down to intent... she has said she thinks he did it deliberately. He has said he did not.

I believe they both are sincere in what they say. In other words, I believe both of them... at the same time... equally. Cognitive dissonance in action.

You do not understand me, or the situation. And the Head is in the same place. Good student, good member of staff. Both are cooperating, telling the same story, both are very embarrassed but she believes he acted deliberately, he says he did not.

Now, without crawling into their heads, how do you decide, one against the other? You seem to want him to be guilty. I don't think he is.

Others might say 'ah well, she acted maliciously' - I don't think she did.

I am glad it is not my decision, as I would doing someone a disservice. One that, getting back to the OP, would have been less likely to occur had she been wearing uniform appropriate clothing!

Which was the point I was originally trying to make!

wanttosqueezeyou · 23/01/2015 13:55

interesting response.

Troubling that the letter from the head appears to have been deliberately worded in that manner...

Perhaps she would like girls to cover their hair/ankles in future to keep themselves safe?

Original poster
Somethingtodo · 23/01/2015 14:00

Be interesting to see how head justifys it.

  • it is not possible though, is it?

and because she cant justify it - is why she needs to do this verbally - she just wants to smooth out the creases. Avoiding putting anything contentious in writing is a standard safe-guarding tactic from a legal perspective!

Not decided yet if I can be bothered to jump to her tune - why cant she just spend 2 mins writing a response?

Or do I go out of my way to take the opportunity to educate her? Will that be possible?

She has a safe-guarding lead in the school - they were copied on the email - surely they cant support her stance?

OP posts:
Onceuponatimetherewas · 23/01/2015 14:24

So the Head wants to meet OP in person. Presumably assuming that she can intimidate her with her strength of personality, authority, etc? Maybe OP should take her DH or friend along to take notes, so that they can make a formal record of the meeting. Or perhaps she could insist on a written response.

Original poster
Somethingtodo · 23/01/2015 14:53

Once - yes that is how I feel actually -- summoned to the Heads Office for daring to speak out.

OP posts:
Seff · 23/01/2015 14:55

I don't want him to be guilty! I'm just saying that if you don't think he did it deliberately then you can't believe her that he did! You say you believe that she thinks he did, which is not the same thing.

You're not making the decision, so it doesn't matter who you believe. IMO you cannot believe both of them. And you clearly don't think he did it deliberately. Which is fine. But I don't agree that means you believe her. It just means you believe that she believes it. But you disagree with her.

Seff · 23/01/2015 14:56

Argh too many believes! I no longer believe I know how to spell believe!

Seff · 23/01/2015 14:58

What I'm saying is that you think she is wrong. You believe that she thinks it was deliberate, but you think she is mistaken. IMO.

mathanxiety · 23/01/2015 16:30

If you go to talk to her, send her a memo of the discussion afterwards and ask her to file it.

I think she is actually clueless about the subject of victim blaming and has no idea what has you so upset here -- I think she may believe that if she explains the circumstances you will understand exactly what she is talking about. I would suspect she doesn't want to spell out in an email what the incident was that may have prompted the letter out of a desire to protect personal information of the student, and hence the 'off the record' approach.

Some links here that might help arm you for your meeting.

stealthsquiggle · 23/01/2015 16:36

High standards of uniform - fine
High standards of safety - absolutely

The fact that she connects the two - seriously not OK. I feel for you, OP. Sounds like it would be a matter of you educating her, if you go.

Nomama · 23/01/2015 17:20

Sorry Seff, but this is real life and the outcome matters - and I am part of that outcome.

The member of staff has an umblemished record and there is no reason to doubt him.

The student is not a troublemaker and there is no reason to doubt her either.

Both of them believe they are right.

I can't say any more strongly that I have a perfect case of cognitive dissonance over this. I do believe they both believe they are telling the truth.

The blindingly obvious explanation is she over reacted when she realised what had happened. But why would anyone force that view on her? That is not what she feels happened... for that the staff member is, in part, responsible. He should have acted differently, reduced the impact/embarrassment levels. So he does carry some blame here.

As I said right back at the beginning, a more appropriate skirt length, and posture, would have reduced the chance of this happening. Both of which he could have corrected... he could have given her a dress code warning and he should have told her to sit properly.

Seff · 23/01/2015 17:37

You clearly don't understand the point I'm making, and as you are still insistent that you believe her despite the fact that you think she's over reacted and are still saying that you "believe she believes" I'm going to bow out.

Good luck OP.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 23/01/2015 17:42

I find it almost impossible to believe that a reasonable man acting in good faith and a reasonable girl acting in good faith would suddenly find themselves in this situation as the direct result of a short skirt. Someone's been an idiot and/or not entirely told the truth, or else this story has been a tad drip fed and tweaked for the benefit of MN.

The head in the OP is acting like a teenager making it up as she goes along: noooo, there was a very good reason I had to say that, and I'll tell you what it is in a Private Chat.... Um.... When I've thought what it is!