To wish people who send their kids to daycare would be more considerate?

[cinnamongirl1976]

Overheard the other day: "He was sick in the night, but I sent him to nursery because he was okay this morning and I have a really important meeting today".

I hate, hate, HATE it when people do this! The 48-hour rule is there for a reason. Why are some people so inconsiderate when it comes to this? Do they not think of the other children at the nursery/childminder, their families etc? By sending your sick kid in, you could be ruining someone else's weekend. You don't know if they have people in their family with compromised immune systems.

Colds are fine of course and our childminder is fine with that. If we had to exclude for colds I would have been sacked long ago and our childminder would be out of business.

But for anything else - especially D&V - I always follow the illness and exclusion rules our childminder has 100% - work has to take a back seat and it is simply not fair on the other children, your own child, or the childminder/nursery, to do anything else. I have also kept DD off when she's not been contagious (eg ear infection) but would be happier at home. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who actually abides by these rules - do you?

Perhaps it is you who has it all, and are berating those who don't.

I think that is quite a bold assumption to make. I certainly don't 'have it all' but I don't really want to either. I never said I didn't understand how tough it was being a working parent and I'm not actually 'berating' anybody (though receiving my fair share of that, it would seem). Other than the government or some people's employers, perhaps.

The original woman on the train (and yes, I know I have no idea about her circumstances or that of her son) was a rather posh, suited and booted type, not someone who looked like she was struggling to make ends meet - so please don't twist my thread to make it look like I'm saying something I wasn't. I do also think some people just use childcare to fob their sick DCs off onto someone else (I don't mean everyone, and I probably don't mean you, before you get all uppity).

All I was (and am) saying is that I wish people would be a bit more considerate of others. That is all.

Well your posts hit a nerve with me, someone struggling with job and sick child today. I suppose we're all just trying our best aren't we? No easy solution. I also don't see what's wrong with wanting it all, if that means career and children for women. Damn well should be possible after all the effort people put into their educations

I also wish people would be more considerate of others

I wouldnt knowingly send my childfren in if they had a D&V bug. Would I send them in with a cough / cold? Absolutely, as long as it wasnt too bad.

Do you love your children more than me because you do take the time off when you can? No.

Is love for our children measured on how much time we spend with them/take off work? No.

Your posts have struck a nerve with me also OP. But to be fair I think you don't realise how your posts are coming across. They have an air of "well I am considerably more caring than yow because I thought long and hard about being a parent don't you know" about them.

Bottom line is yes, employers do need to be more accommodating, but there has to be some common sense ie. people not abusing the godo will of employers by taking time off willy nilly. I also worry that this culture of "Tarquin has the sniffles so he has to stay off school" is going to breed a generation of soft-arses who will suffer a shock when they enter the working world.

nobody had bothered to inform me it was going round. While the other children were a bit sniffly mine needed 6 blood transfusions.

This exactly. you should follow the rules (even when you think that they are stupid because you can't see past the end of your nose) because what you think is a bit of a sniffle, or something that all kids get so no worries may be nearly fatal (or actually fatal) to another kid.

If your kid has a bit of a cold or has been a bit sick, they will pass it to other kids, who spread it around their families.
Families who may have people who work in the food industry, who then can't go to work to earn money to pay their bills.
So to the person who posted earlier. whilst it's perfectly reasonable to not want to miss a day of being a barrister, the fact that you send your kids to school with sicknesses means that other people have to miss work when they have to look after their kids.

no one person is so important that they can't take a single day to try stop the spread of infectious diseases.

What I do glean is that some of us cant afford to take a day off every time Precious has the sniffles,
Yes, your job is so important that you kids can spread disease to my family, then when my wife catches a cold after it's been passed around and can't go into work, since she'll see sick and elderly people who "you know might die" given their compromised immune system

But that's fine, I understand perfectly well your job is most important.
Your bills are most important
Nuts to everyone else.

With the poster I quoted first who kid has leukaemia, your job is so clearly more important than her childs life?

I agree. I caught d&v this week off a friend's child. I get really stressed about it because ds is on immune suppressants for his IBD. He simply cannot get it or it could relapse again and he's been ill lots this year and has already had to have too many steroids.

Employers don't 'have to be more accomodating'.

They are running businesses.

You hope you have a decent, reasonable boss who will understand why you might have to take rare day off or work from home.

But they don't owe it to you!

It is our choice to have kids and we have to get proper childcare cover and yes sometimes you are in an impossible situation when you have important work events and a sick child but it's not the company's problem, bottom line.

Now that I have a flexible job, I would never send my kids to nursery if they'd been sick or had a tummy upset or whatever. However, when I was in a horrible job where they looked for every opportunity to make my life a misery, I must confess, I didn't adhere to the rules as much as I should have done. I was desperate and miserable (and recognise that others felt that way as a result of catching whatever my kids had) and was made to feel that I had no choice. Parental leave was not an option in an organisation where they were just itching to try to make me leave.

Just musing here, what happens if a child at boarding school gets D&V - do they have to be sent home even if the parents are living abroad?

Perhaps they get quarantined in the 'infirmary' or whatever they call it.

< knows nothing about boarding schools >

schokolade and GahBuggerit - I did not intend to upset anyone or strike a nerve so apologies if I did. I think AIBU is a bit of a bitchy place, but it wasn’t my intention to start a bitchy thread. It's just that some people have responded in that way.

I would never suggest that one person loves their child more than another person. I don't think any of my posts said that. You do what you can and you do your best. And I only actually mentioned in one post (and certainly not any of the original ones) that I had to think long and hard about being a parent, only once. It doesn’t make me better than anyone else. I intended only to give my own circumstances and also try to point out that I just think stuff has to change when you become a parent. Some people have a sense of entitlement and bugger anyone else’s kids when it comes to (ab)using their daycare arrangements and using them as a kind of sick bay rather than what they are supposed to be (and I am not suggesting that this is either of you, more a reflection on this woman on the train and others I have come across).

FWIW I don’t abuse my employer’s trust and take time off willy nilly - not sure if you were suggesting that or not. In fact I’ve only taken time off for DD’s illness once or twice. I have been ‘lucky’ that the worst bout of illness so far happened over a weekend and I work in the later part of the week, so was unaffected work-wise.

I follow the childminder’s rules to the letter and I just wish everyone else did. Admittedly, I also send DD in with little sniffles. But only the kinds of things toddlers have all the time, not temperatures or hacking coughs and clinginess. They don’t turn people away for colds and are quite open about that before you sign a contract with them, though.

I think suggestions of keeping a child off when they just have the sniffles are madness. And I say that as a parent of a child who regularly ends up in hospital when he catches other people's sniffles. Some things in life are unavoidable! Obviously if a child is full of a cold/cough then they should be kept at home.

Same goes with 'd and v' tbough and some common sense has to be applied. Any indication it is a bug, or more than one incident then yes keep home without a doubt but for some child throwing up once is 'normal' for them in certain circumstances so then parental judgement comes into it. If DS vomited once I would keep him off as he never vomits, if he had one loose poo I wouldn't keep him off as that is normal for him if he has too much sugar so I would use my judgement on that one.

paperlace - in the UK, employers are supposed to be accommodating and employees (there are rules about what actually defines an 'employee' as opposed to a 'worker') do have the right to emergency time off for dependants.

I mention this not because I don't care about anyone outside of the UK, simply because it might be helpful to those who are in the UK. I have no doubt that a lot of employers don't care about these rules, though.

notauniquename - I do follow the 'rules' actually . We are told at school and nursery that sniffles / cough / cold is not a good enough reason to not send the child in unless they are really poorly with it, probably because the school understands that its not guaranteed the child will pass it around, and we simply cant keep children off every single time they are a bit unwell.

Its not that Im more important than you, or my bills are more important than yours at all. But do feel free to think that if it helps you to be more indignant.

Employers don't 'have to be more accomodating'.
If they want a future workforce they do. what with Children being the future and all...

We should demand more of employers.

you can't and shouldn't expect people to keep your child off due to a common
can you rephrase that,
maybe if you actually type, "my going back to work is more important than your child life. I will send my kid to school, even before they are fully recovered, and if you want your child to stay alive then keep your child away"

Maybe in actually writing that you might stop and think about the affects of choosing to send people with contagious diseases into the playground.

I don't disagree that some illnesses don't present symptoms before they are contagious, and the schools have to inform people when there is something going around, that doesn't remove your responsibility.

YABU

It's a lifestyle choice that supports and retains life as we know it.

If you send your kids to nursery/daycare with D&V and they have further D&V you will soon get a call to come and collect them. If a child has a proper D&V bug they aren't going to last very long at all in any kind of non-home based childcare.

If your DC throws up in the night and your send them to nursery and there are no further incidents, chances are they have not passed the bug onto anyone and probably no longer have the 'bug' and possibly never had a bug in the first place. Lots of non-buggy things can make a child throw up.

Germs are germs - by your thinking/logic OP, you seem to think if we all stayed home when we are sick, then all germ/virus based illnesses will soon die off as no one will pass them on (except the OK colds of course - even though as other posters have pointed out a common cold can be very dangerous for some people)

I think with most contagious bugs and illnesses are usually passed on before anyone knows they are even sick.

From personal experience I know DD1 can be very sick in bed one day with high temps etc - bag of misery and yet absolutely right as rain the very next morning & will bounce out of bed completely cured.

I agree with you OP!

Employers do have to be more accommodating.

We employ parents of young dc and make allowances accordingly. And we run a relatively small business.

Employees tend to be v. grateful when you do this and make up the extra time when things are going more smoothly for them. It's called good management. We've never had anyone, and I mean anyone, take advantage.

The sooner the business world wakes up to the fact that dc under 6 years of age tend to get ill fairly regularly, the better. Why everyone pretends this isn't the case I have no idea. It's a matter of fact. Make sensible provisions. It isn't fair to the child not to. End of.

we simply cant keep children off every single time they are a bit unwell.
there is a difference between a couple of sneezes and a cold though.
(and a lot of people saying that they "know" that their kids are sick, but are sending them anyway so that they don't miss work. -which is hugely different from ate too much haribo and was sick) -it's just common sense that you would keep a child off who was suffering with a cold, but not one who is just greedy!

Perhaps I'm just annoyed because of the cold I caught (at work) that made me feel like shite for three weeks because of that stupid person that works in accounts and thought that they world would fall apart without them.

They actually used the phrase "oh, I cannot be sick right now" (despite it being a reasonably large department!) and continued to cough sneeze and wheeze their way around the office spreading it about.

You don't want people to follow THE rules, you want people to follow YOUR rules. 48 hours is for D&V or other contagious illnesses. You want us all to not use our own judgement, and to do what you would like to make you more comfortable.

You have one small child, two parents, and a part time accomodating job. How dare you lecture other people on what they should and should not do? Very few of us are so lucky. One of my (several) children is often sick, he has more than one condition that can cause this. He is no danger to anyone else. I use my many years of experience as a parent to judge whether he needs to be kept home or not. You do not know my child, how dare you try to sub your judgement for mine? I will not keep him home to suit the like of you and your judgemental, sanctimonious ilk.

No I wasnt suggesting you took time off willy nilly AT ALL, you clearly dont, as you still send your children in (as I do) if they are a bit unwell with sniffles etc.

I was suggesting that if we go down the road of what some are ssaying, which is even for the slightest illness you keep your child off (willy nilly) then employers will eventually be less and less accommodating (if indeed they are)

Also, I said your posts had a certain 'air' about them, but that I didn't think it was intentional.

Its a bit of an emotive subject because inevitably it just highlights to some of us that as much as we'd love to say "fuck it, I'll ring in work and we can have a DVD day because you have got a blocked nose" we actually cant because (for me anyway) I cant afford it, I actually think its a bit wrong to keep children off school for anything not too bad, and I dont want my DS to think its fine to ring in sick every other bloody day.

We have an apprentice here, fresh out of school, who rings in work when hes got a sore throat or some other equally trivial ailment. Its no coincidence that us 'old school' ones (who only stayed off school if our heads were hanging off) eyebrows nearly drop off when he does this, yet his peer group think its fine. Upon quizzing him more he does confirm that his school had a policy of slightest illness - you stayed off. Its a shame really because hes quite close to the cut off on our Bradford Formula which means he may lose his job.

notauniquename - were you off work for 3 weeks when you caught that cold?

I agree with you OP, especially when it comes to the possibility of stomach bugs.

It is incredibly selfish of people to send their children into school or childcare when they've had D&V, and unfortunately, not every parents judgement can be trusted on whether it's contagious or not. Even if there were some fool proof method, enough posters on here have shown that they value their jobs more than other people's health and would send contagious children in.

I appreciate that not everyone has the luxury of understanding employers, but then not everyone has the luxury of being able to cope normally with a D&V bug either.

By that logic though woowoo colds are contagious, a cold could kill my son so everyone with colds should be off too?

Now of course that will never happen. Of course anyone with a d and v bug should be at home not going to work but not all vomiting means bug so yes some common sense has to be used same as when deciding to send a child into school with any other illness.

grocklebox - they're not my rules. I wasn't even aware of them pre-kids. You might wanna get that chip off your shoulder or at least get some ketchup to go with it - think you've maybe had a bit too much vinegar.

GahBuggerit - whatever you read from my posts wasn't intentional, you are right, so apologies to anyone else if it came across in the wrong way. I will bite back if people are rude to me, though (grocklebox).

Yes, it is an emotive subject. Being a working parent is really hard. And I do get that one person's little cold might be something a lot more serious for another person. No big deal to me, clearly a big deal to others and I do respect that. For instance I would not dream of letting DD be around a newborn or anyone who was immunocompromised if she had a cold.

Luckily our childminder is relaxed about colds, but not about D&V and more serious things. I had to keep DD off for impetigo once - their rules (I didn't even know what it was) - she wasn't ill but it's really contagious. I've no problem with that. That system works for us, might not for others, fair enough. But if you sign up to somewhere that has those rules then you should follow them, IMHO.

"we simply cant keep children off every single time they are a bit unwell."
there is a difference between a couple of sneezes and a cold though.

Not necessarily. Why is a couple of sneezes ok even though we all know sneezing is a symptom of a cold and could have the start of something contagious? Someone could have a cold and feel dreadful (and they should stay off school, quite rightly), someone can have a cold and just have "a couple of sneezes"

We do seem to be agreeing, in a round-a-bout way, that common sense needs to be applied.