To wish people who send their kids to daycare would be more considerate?

[cinnamongirl1976]

Overheard the other day: "He was sick in the night, but I sent him to nursery because he was okay this morning and I have a really important meeting today".

I hate, hate, HATE it when people do this! The 48-hour rule is there for a reason. Why are some people so inconsiderate when it comes to this? Do they not think of the other children at the nursery/childminder, their families etc? By sending your sick kid in, you could be ruining someone else's weekend. You don't know if they have people in their family with compromised immune systems.

Colds are fine of course and our childminder is fine with that. If we had to exclude for colds I would have been sacked long ago and our childminder would be out of business.

But for anything else - especially D&V - I always follow the illness and exclusion rules our childminder has 100% - work has to take a back seat and it is simply not fair on the other children, your own child, or the childminder/nursery, to do anything else. I have also kept DD off when she's not been contagious (eg ear infection) but would be happier at home. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who actually abides by these rules - do you?

Micah - a general note covering the condition. Though I agree you're still relying on parents' judgement and although personally that makes me uncomfortable (because I think some people are selfish and don't think of others, as some of the posters on this thread have proved).

GoodGirlGoneWrong - that is exactly what I am talking about. I hope you're all better now, though.

I just hope that the folk on here who said they'd send their kids in because they have to work don't use the same childminder as me! It is about being honest and showing respect for other people and their families.

How can this be compared to P & T parking or other yawnsome topics? this is a serious subject that has the potential to be life threatening to babies, immune compromised and the elderly. The more awareness the better. You can get vomit-once bugs, my DC had one in the summer and it spread around the entire school

Pasithea in my case we did think about having time if sick and support etc. But we massively underestimated the number of illnesses. DD has been at nursery for 6 months and has had d&v x2 and at least six colds, two if which led to hospital visits. And another two led to ear infections. She was never sick before nursery. Add to that that DH and I normally get the virus a fee days later - we just did not realise the extent.

YNBU Op. It's one of my pet gripes. Dh and I both work full time and have no family support. We have always ensured we observe the 48hrs rule, taking time off work when needing to.
pasithea we definitely thought about this when having our kids. And is one of the reasons we have a 5 year aged gap between our 2. Luckily it does get easier as they get older.

well........DS was sick one night, I knew it wasnt a bug, it was because he wolfed down his tea and jumped around like a jumping bean, so in he went.

If its a proper bug yanbu

Well, 10 minutes after puking, DS was eating chocolate, this really was a 'vomit once and you are completely better bug', I know it was a bug, because 2 days later DD had it.

Not the worst bug in the world then thedevilinside. Colds are worse than that and apparently they're just fine and dandy to pass around.

I comply but I seriously doubt it makes much difference, given people tend to be infectious for most illnesses before they show symptoms, and given siblings don't get excluded. When my DT1 got chickenpox, she was excluded from nursery but her sister allowed in, although it was inevitable that DT2 was going to show up with it within 10-14 days.

My DD woke up on the second day of school (having been one of the last to start in a staggered intake) complaining of having a stomach ache. Since there were no obvious signs of illness, I chivvied her along to the childminder and told her that she couldn't stay at home at the drop of a hat now she was at school.

Twenty minutes later, the cm rang to say that DD had been sick all over the floor. So we had to abide by the 48 hour rule and keep her at home for the second and third day of school. Following the single vomit episode, DD was right as rain and bouncing off the walls within the hour. It was sooo frustrating.

But the rules are there for a reason, and I'm happy to stick to them. So I do agree with you OP, but I am also extremely sympathetic to posters who find it hard to take time off work. I wouldn't judge someone who sent their child in after a vomiting episode like my daughter's.

pasithea I can't say we gave it much thought to be honest - just assumed that as other people in similar circumstances managed, we would to. We had bigger hurdles to overcome to have kids - recurrent miscarriage, risk of having a baby with a life-limiting comdition, IVF, twin pregnancy. That stuff would put a lot of people off, not us, therefore we have kids. I suppose logically if you compare people who have kids, and people who thought about it but decided no, you'll find the group who thought better of it were on average more risk averse. With respect I don't think that means that those of us who took the risk and had children made a wrong decision.

Must say OP - it's unlikely that people would choose not to have children purely on the basis that they wouldn't be able to take a day off work if their child was ill.

There seems to be a habit - not just on MN, but everywhere - of people responding to the everyday difficulties of parenting with "You should have thought of that before you had children".

I suppose it's possible that you could be so well prepared for parenthood that you'd got yourself a job where you could always count on being able to drop a day at a moment's notice. But there are far fewer of those kinds of jobs than there are working parents, so it's not a solution for everyone.

There are some nasty people posting on here. Kids with d and v should be at home. It's a viral thing that is nasty. We can all live with a cough or cold if we have a normal immune system. If you don't like the OPs post, why join in?

I keep the DCs off even if they seem absolutely right as rain the next day. I appreciate it's relatively ok for me my job (though DH and I have no family around) but if I sent them in and they spread something around then it might cause massive problems for someone who can't take the time off so easily. Tough call for those in that situation.

I wonder what the science is behind the D&V 48 hour rule and whether its a sledgehammer to address minor ailments as part of addressing major ones.

Some of the most contagious and serious conditions (eg C Pox) would have long spread to other kids by the time they show up on your own so
48 hr seems a bit random and is undoubtedly unnecessary in some cases.

As for 'work takes a back seat', well yes it does for many and its why women are leaving the workplace in droves, are more likely to be made redundant when pregnant/on mat leave etc because employers won't tolerate absence and many dads aren't picking up their fair share.
I wasn't aware we were supposed to think that was a good thing though.

Treats - I never suggested anyone should not have children purely on the basis that they wouldn't be able to take a day off if their child was ill. But I do think that if I was in that situation, I would probably think about changing jobs before having children. I did have really difficult job a long time ago - it was a place where you didn't take time off ever (one poor woman was forced to stay in the office until 5pm in heavy snow and not allowed to go and collect her one-year-old from nursery early! - she was a timid little thing and I was probably a bit ballsier and just walked out before I got snowed in, even though I did not have kids). That was a long time pre-kids, but I definitely wouldn't have stayed there if I had been planning to start a family at that time.

I do appreciate that I am lucky with my job but my employer (which is pretty family friendly) is how all organisations should be. That said, the job is incredibly frustrating at the moment for boring reasons I won't go into and if I didn't have children I would leave. But I do, and I know this job works for them, so I'm putting my own desires (as far as work goes) on hold for now.

I suppose I was just trying to say that nurseries, schools and childminders are not dumping grounds for sick children, but it staggers me that people use them in that way and do not recognise that when kids come along so do compromises. The person I overheard wasn't anyone I know; it was just someone on the train on the way to work. And I guess this thread has proved that there are lots of people like that out there.

My colleague (the one with cancer) doesn't like to come into the office anymore and works from home a lot, mainly because of the type of behaviour we have been talking about.

Do you not think that if it wasnt a big deal that most people would jump at the chance of a day off work?
The reason people go in to work and send the child to whatever child care they use is because they have to. Some will lose a days pay and that may be the difference between paying the mortgage/paying a bill. Some people work in jobs where their duties are not covered on a day off and they have appointments scheduled etc. For example my DH works in an extremely busy job in a service industry, if he isnt in there is simply no one else to cover his work, but there are numerous customers who have reorganised their day to see him. I work as a barrister, if I have a case in court I cant ring the judge and ask him to reschedule because my child vomitted once in the night. We are luckly to have family near us and can usually organised someone to look after kids but if I didnt have them I can see that a situation would arise where I would have no option but to send in a child. I appreciate it isnt ideal and not something to do with no thought as to how it affects others, but sometimes needs must.

It simply isnt a black or white area.

Sorry, Lima1, and not to jump on you specifically, but I think that is quite a selfish attitude. Childcare is not there to look after sick children.

If people really need that sort of care when their kids are ill, then I think they should look at nannies or au pairs (whose rules might be different if they are just looking after your kids). At least that way they are not infecting lots of other families.

If you did think about how it might affect others then you wouldn't do it, IMO.

I do recognise some people's jobs make it difficult and that's something the government should look at if it wants to encourage parents to work but I don't know what the answer is.

My son was constantly sick between 9 months and 18 months old. He didn't have a bug - he just couldn't chew lumpy food very well, so he'd gag when you fed him and you never knew if it was going to come straight back. If I'd kept him off nursery, or they'd sent him home every time it had happened, he'd probably made it to nursery and stayed there one day in ten!

If they've overeaten they're not ill if they are sick and will generally be fine the next day. And if they are feeling ill presumably they'll stay at home.

But if you suspect a bug, no YANBU.

Yes, that vomit-once bug is a mild one, I was just trying to illustrate that it is possible to only vomit once with a bug. Our school says 24 hours for one vomit and 48 hours for full blown D & V, I think that is sensible. Colds and coughs are spread so wildly, I suspect it would be impossible to quarantine those, but D & V is the oral/faecal route, so easier to quarantine with good hygiene and people abiding the rules.

Sorry OP but I think you're being pretty self-righteous considering you work PT for a family-friendly organisation and have a husband who can support you all. I'm sure most people in YOUR situation would keep their kids home, as Lima says, who wouldn't like a day off work? Some of us have more difficult situations.

It's easy to say 'oh well just sacrifice your career to go work PT for a family-friendly organisation' but you do realise not everyone can do that, right?

The UK advice of 48 hours, no ifs, ands or buts, seems a bit overdone. In France the rule is 24 hours. And I saw this guidance from a US school that I think is much more sensible (not least for separating D from V, which the UK advice doesn't seem to do much):

"Nausea and vomiting are very common childhood symptoms. Almost any illness may cause a child to vomit. In a school setting, it must be decided whether the nausea/vomiting is the result of a disease for which the parent/guardian must be notified and the child dismissed from school, or whether the child can be observed in the office for 10-30 minutes to see if symptoms subside.
One episode of vomiting does not mean the child must see a Doctor or go home. Vomiting may be attributed to many factors such as food allergies, too much exercise, emotional anxiety, reflux or other causes. Assess the child's temperature after the first episode of vomiting. If fever is present, notify the parent/guardian to pick up the child. If no fever is noted, allow the child to rest quietly for 20 minutes and if there are no further symptoms, send back to class and exempt from strenuous activity.
If after a 20 minute rest period, the child shows continued or increased discomfort, call parent/guardian for pick up.
If it is determined that the child must be sent home, the child must be free of vomiting for a period of 24 hours before being allowed to return to school."

Op you are very fortunate that you don't have to worry about not being paid for taking time off work to look after a child who may or may not have needed keeping off school.

I do like your suggestion of nannies and au pairs etc for people who cant keep their children out of school / nursery unless necessary. Maybe the other childrens parents would pay the nannies wages? I certainly wouldn't be able to.

Id actually LOVE to be able to take the day off every time one of the kids had the sniffles etc, and for it not to mean Id lose my home/job/prospects etc.

As a PP said, it snot that black and white. What you are writing sounds ideal, and hopefully one day it will be like that, where people can just change jobs, have au pairs etc

The nanny suggestion doesn't even make sense once your kids are school-age and not everyone has an extra room for an au pair.

OP yanbu.

The last bug we had in our house started with middle DD being sick a handful of times overnight, no diarrhoea. Next day, DS feeling sick for 3 days with a high fever, no D or V. Then 48 hrs after DD was ill, myself and the toddler started being sick within ten mins of each other. She was sick a few times overnight, I spent the entire night either on the toilet or asleep on the bathroom floor in case I shat myself - it was that nasty and coming out of both ends at the same time. DH never had anything more than one nasty poo and a tummy ache.

My point is, a bug which may make one person just feel a bit off colour (my DS and DH) can really knock another person off their feet (me)! And I'm very very rarely ill but god I suffered that night.

Dreaming - you would simply sell your house and get a bigger one, obviously...

Its interesting that schools (who are assessed on pupil attendance) appear more willing to relax the rules on D&V than nurseries (who aren't). Shouldn't it be linked to the health risk rather than be subjective to the school/nursery?