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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

in thiking you don't generally tend to have sex with people who have been stalking you?

239 replies

RoyallyFuckedOff · 14/01/2015 20:48

And that teenager can't groom and adult? Angry

Iwww.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30813335

From the judge Judge Greenberg said she believed the victim was "intelligent and manipulative" and "showed no compunction" about lying when it suited herJudge Greenberg said she believed the victim was "intelligent and manipulative" and "showed no compunction" about lying when it suited her

The charming fellow had sex with a teenager the same week his wife was miscarrying their baby and apparently that was grounds for him being "weak".

AIBU to think he is scum and that the judge is a rape myth peddling idiot who should never be allowed to hold a gavel after insulting a victim?

OP posts:
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6
ApocalypseThen · 16/01/2015 08:48

He couldn't possibly believe he should be working with young people again? Is there no end to his vanity and delusion?

YonicSleighdriver · 16/01/2015 08:51

Christ, this was something the prosecutors said!

"The Crown aren't saying she's innocent in all this.
"She was anxious to have a relationship with him... (but) he was a senior teacher who took advantage of a vulnerable young girl who was besotted with him."

What a ridiculous use of the word "innocent"

m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30108462

YonicSleighdriver · 16/01/2015 08:54

His case is that he never had sex with her at all.

m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30224580

alreadytaken · 16/01/2015 09:00

if he appeals can the sentence then be increased, I do hope so.

Can anyone provide the case number and details of the court? I have emailed the Attorney General's office protesting about the inability to appeal the sentence and would like to complain about the Judge. The complaint will be taken more seriously if I can fill out the full details on the complaint form.

Charingcrossbun · 16/01/2015 09:02

It's really shocking. There are many many tricky and difficult bits to being a teacher, goal posts that move and messages that are mixed but one rule is always really really clear: don't have sex with the children. Even if they ask.
A student being infatuated with a teacher is not rare. Every make teacher will have had some sort of inappropriate comment, flirtation or even advance. All schools have ways of reporting and dealing with this. The man is a disgrace and the judge horrifically out of touch.

giraffesCantFlyWithReindeer · 16/01/2015 09:03

Bloody hell

YonicSleighdriver · 16/01/2015 09:07

I don't believe so, already - I assume he is seeking permission to appeal the verdict, not the sentence - can't find anything on the news. It may just be a "mr Kerner is considering his options including appeal" type story.

alreadytaken · 16/01/2015 09:25

he'd need new evidence to appeal the conviction or court procedures not being followed - and with a judge cearly more than helpful to his case the latter is unlikely.

yellowdaisies · 16/01/2015 09:26

He's saying it never happened. It's usual if people want to appeal a verdict that they do so pretty much straight after it's given. Would be a bit odd to accept it and then decide months later that it was wrong. Not sure what grounds though - you have to show something was wrong with the previous trial don't you? Eg evidence wrongly ignored

Andrewofgg · 16/01/2015 09:29

If he appeals against sentence it can't be increased. Appellants in custody can lose time but he is not in custody.

If he appeals against conviction and wins and the CoA orders a retrial and he is again convicted he may not be as lucky next time. If I were his solicitor I would advise him not to risk it. Whether there would be a retrial depends on many things. One of them is the publicity there has now been. Another is the reason for the appeal; if evidence against him was wrongly admitted there probably won't be.

He has the right to apply for permission to appeal just as he had the right to plead not guilty - in which he was partly vindicated by the verdict.

Andrewofgg · 16/01/2015 09:31

Yellowdaisies His time to appeal runs from sentence.

alreadytaken · 16/01/2015 10:49

As to his partial "vindication" I should like to read the summing up by the Judge. It is clear that she believed the girl to be a liar and was sympathetic to the defendant. Did she misdirect the jury? I suspect that the jury gave hm the benefit of the doubt when it was the girls's word against his because of the way the judge directed them. However when there was corroboration they convicted him. To me that is not "vindication" and I would probably have taken the view that if there was corrobotaion of two offences there was insufficient doubt about the others to acquit. I agree that he would be unwise to risk getting another jury.

Regardless of the judge's personal view of the victim a jury found sufficient evidence to convict on two counts and a Judge is not there to substitute their view for that of the jury.

For anyone else incensed enough to complain the case number is T20137510, it was the Inner London Crown Court and the date was 14/01/2015

Andrewofgg · 16/01/2015 11:00

He would be unwise to risk getting another judge!

He cannot be retried on the charges on which he was acquitted - however the judge summed up.

YonicSleighdriver · 16/01/2015 11:11

Andrew, can't the crown seek an appeal if they believe the summing up was prejudicial?

(I'm not saying they will or it was, but in principle. )

Andrewofgg · 16/01/2015 11:35

No.

There is a system to refer such cases to the CoA but it does not affect the acquittal and is conducted anonymously - and in fact it won't happen if the case has been prominent in the media.

This slob has got lucky (in his judge and on his wife who according to the tabloid press is standing by him) and if he leaves it at that, that's the end of it. Shit happens.

PedantMarina · 16/01/2015 11:56

"exemplary" >snorts with deridon<

MrsTerryPratchett in particular will get this paraphrase from Night Watch: he didn't have xx years of good behaviour, he had xx years of not being caught put.

I'll bet cash money more pupils will come forward now. If that idiot judge's remarks didn't scare them off, that is.

PedantMarina · 16/01/2015 12:02

Wow, such typos. sorry, cracked screen.

derision and caught out, of course... Blush

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 16/01/2015 12:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BarbarianMum · 16/01/2015 12:07

The tabloid press always say that every wife who hasn't left is 'standing by him.' We have no idea what the poor woman is thinking/planning, just a pretty good idea of how hurt and betrayed she must feel.

MrsHathaway · 16/01/2015 12:07

I'm surprised his wife is staying with him. She must believe that he is innocent, even in the face of the evidence that convinced the jury.

I am imagining the kind of woman who would be married to the kind of man who'd think it was ok to do what this man did. She thinks it was ok for him to have a relationship with someone else not only while but because she was recovering from an apparently traumatic miscarriage. She has never been told that men can resist temptation.

She needs Mumsnet.

BarbarianMum · 16/01/2015 12:11

With all due respect MrsHatherway you have no idea of "what kind of woman" she is, nor what she thought her husband was capable of, or what she intends to do next or why.

And its pretty fucking offensive to imply that women married to men that abuse are any type except unlucky.

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 16/01/2015 12:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsHathaway · 16/01/2015 12:20

With all due respect MrsHatherway you have no idea of "what kind of woman" she is, nor what she thought her husband was capable of, or what she intends to do next or why. And its pretty fucking offensive to imply that women married to men that abuse are any type except unlucky.

I'm sorry if my comment offended - that was absolutely not my intention. I was trying to imply by "I am imagining" that I was trying to work out how someone could stay married to someone who did what he did - having got married to him in the first place is absolutely unlucky, yes. Perhaps she is still processing the information and will choose to split up with him in due course.

I think I'm still reeling from the news that the rapist Ched Evans kept his girlfriend.

Again, apologies for my clumsy words.

BarbarianMum · 16/01/2015 12:32

Fair enough. Thanks for explaining. Smile

ApocalypseThen · 16/01/2015 14:44

In any event, the judge seems to have a closer idea of what the public thinks than we do, if the comments from The Men of CIF are anything to go by. I know they're widely acknowledged to be some of the worst people currently alive and mostly able to spell, but they really have outdone themselves on this topic.

Men can't help themselves around 16 year olds when in loco parentis. That's human nature specially when the tricksy, sexy kids are around.

Also, don't say that society needs to teach men how not to rape.