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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

in thiking you don't generally tend to have sex with people who have been stalking you?

239 replies

RoyallyFuckedOff · 14/01/2015 20:48

And that teenager can't groom and adult? Angry

Iwww.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30813335

From the judge Judge Greenberg said she believed the victim was "intelligent and manipulative" and "showed no compunction" about lying when it suited herJudge Greenberg said she believed the victim was "intelligent and manipulative" and "showed no compunction" about lying when it suited her

The charming fellow had sex with a teenager the same week his wife was miscarrying their baby and apparently that was grounds for him being "weak".

AIBU to think he is scum and that the judge is a rape myth peddling idiot who should never be allowed to hold a gavel after insulting a victim?

OP posts:
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6
YonicSleighdriver · 15/01/2015 17:01

BDad, she was defence counsel - she needs to say that sort of thing. She's not absolving; that's her case.

As a judge, it's different.

Jux · 15/01/2015 17:08

Basically, teachers can now shag pupils with equanimity.
Youth workers can shag their charges.
Anyone with a duty of care towards a minor can shag their brains out if they so desire.

No repercussions. Precedent has been set.

"not my fault, guv, s/he tempted me".

On the other hand, at least she was 16, otherwise they'd be having 'shag a pupil' days in primaries too.

BarbarianMum · 15/01/2015 17:25

MrsHatherway I had to walk my sister through some of it. Now that's depressing. She's in her 50s and considers herself a feminist. And actually she is (in many ways) a feminist - but still stuck on that 'she knew exactly what she was doing' attitude to teenage girls.

I think she gets it now though.

HelenPat79 · 15/01/2015 18:16

Berts - firstly, since it sounds like your affair was not a happy experience, I'm really sorry that happened to you. But (a) a 16-year-old is not really a 'child', they can legally have sex with almost anyone apart from teachers etc, and (b) wanting a relationship with someone you really like and are attracted to is not necessarily putting yourself in harm's way just because they happen to be your teacher at the time. Of course it depends on the circumstances but if both people benefit from the relationship how is it 'taking advantage', which usually means taking without giving in return?

AnyFucker · 15/01/2015 18:21

I wish people would fuck off with their nuances

apologist bullshit

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 15/01/2015 18:23

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HouseWhereNobodyLives · 15/01/2015 18:26

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QueenTilly · 15/01/2015 18:27

Helen One has to wonder why an exception was specifically made for 16 year olds having sex with teachers, eh? Well, I don't, but...

MrsTerryPratchett · 15/01/2015 18:34

Do people really need it to be explained to them why someone in a position of authority and power, with influence over a child's entire future, in a quasi-parental role, trusted with them is NOT OK? I couldn't give a poop whether the girl thought this was hunky dory (chances are she may not later in life anyway) The TEACHER should't have thought it was OK.

FFS I know someone who in their 40s had a relationship with a client in the 40s. She has lost her job, friends, colleagues aren't speaking to her. We are horrified. Because you don't have inappropriate relationships with people you are in a care/counselling/teaching role.

TheEnduringMoment · 15/01/2015 18:40

Jux whilst I agree this is dreadful behaviour by the judge; it's an overstatement to say that the abuser has suffered no repercussions. He has been found guilty of a serious sexual offence and this will have lifelong consequences for him.

TheChandler · 15/01/2015 19:31

I've read some apologetic nonsense for teachers that have sex with pupils, including on here (e.g. its a serious relationship, they are in love, etc.) but this takes the biscuit. Its like some kind of middle aged man's fantasy world.

Schools are full of young people who are attractive and have raging hormones. And they are also full of adult teachers who know that having sex with them is wrong.

I also doubt very much that the pupil involved wouldn't have flirted with Kerner if he hadn't encouraged her. The comments about victim behaviour by the judge are excessive, irrelevant and very harmful. The judge appears to have a particular outcome in mind that she has set out to prove, IMHO.

Andrewofgg · 15/01/2015 19:36

It's perfectly possible that she was the first to be flirtations, Chandler and it's neither here nor there if she was - it's his obligation to have nothing to do with it.

That he cheated on his wife when she was at such a low ebb just adds to the stink around this man.

Sarine1 · 15/01/2015 19:45

This man was a senior member of staff - he was not only an RE teacher, he was a Vice Principal! A leader in the school. He will have received safeguarding training, have been part of the leadership team and been in a very powerful position. Safeguarding is an exceptionally high profile issue in schools and he WILL have known what he was doing. His actions were planned and predatory and a total abuse of his position.
As people have said far more eloquently than I can, 16 year olds can be provocative and target members of staff relentlessly. There is training and support for staff in maintaining boundaries and he had a senior position in ensuring the safety of both children and staff. There is no excuse...

TheChandler · 15/01/2015 20:22

I actually find this man's behaviour so illogical, I am wondering whether he went into the criminal acts with a completely deliberate disregard as to their illegality and of the consequences for himself. I would suggest this is something that the judge has completely failed to take into her account, in her very one-sided judgement based on the acts of a teenager. In other words, she has failed to fully consider the motivations of the offender, and substituted her own interpretation of the motivation of the victim for that.

Inkanta · 15/01/2015 20:27

'In other words, she has failed to fully consider the motivations of the offender, and substituted her own interpretation of the motivation of the victim for that.

Exactly!

AnyFucker · 15/01/2015 20:35

and there we have classic victim-blaming in motion

the offender's motivation minimised and excused

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 15/01/2015 20:45

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ApocalypseThen · 15/01/2015 20:46

That he cheated on his wife when she was at such a low ebb just adds to the stink around this man.

And the fact that this went to trial rather than him pleading guilty and taking responsibility - even belatedly - for his own actions really shows the measure of the man.

SorchaN · 15/01/2015 21:03

I've been ranting about this all day to anyone who will listen. I'm just so very very angry. Since nothing can be done about the sentence, I wonder whether anything can be done about the judge. I have very little knowledge about legal processes, but surely there's some scope for direct consequences?

It's all so shocking and horrifying.

PhaedraIsMyName · 16/01/2015 01:13

Apart from David Starkey on Question Time tonight every one tore into the judge, Douglas Alexander in particular was visibly angry.

Does anyone watch Bad Education? Even Alfie, the worst teacher in the world, can conduct himself properly with a "seductive" pupil.

MrsHathaway · 16/01/2015 07:04

That does not surprise me about Starkey, Phaedra. I'm not aware of any hint of wrongdoing on his part, but his ideas of what's appropriate conversation are Very Odd Indeed.

YonicSleighdriver · 16/01/2015 07:23

Apocalypse, it was worth him going to trial because he was acquitted regarding charges 4-6 other incidents, including 2 when she was 15.

David Starkey is Jeremy Clarkson with more degrees.

ApocalypseThen · 16/01/2015 08:37

I accept it was worth his while, but I think it says many unflattering things about his moral maturity that he forced his wife to undergo the trial and forced his victim to testify.

What kind of a middle aged man sleeps with a teenager when he's in loco parentis? The kind of middle aged man who is unable to reflect on his actions as an adult, take full responsiblity and attempt to minimise the damage after the fact.

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 16/01/2015 08:43

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.