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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

in thiking you don't generally tend to have sex with people who have been stalking you?

239 replies

RoyallyFuckedOff · 14/01/2015 20:48

And that teenager can't groom and adult? Angry

Iwww.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30813335

From the judge Judge Greenberg said she believed the victim was "intelligent and manipulative" and "showed no compunction" about lying when it suited herJudge Greenberg said she believed the victim was "intelligent and manipulative" and "showed no compunction" about lying when it suited her

The charming fellow had sex with a teenager the same week his wife was miscarrying their baby and apparently that was grounds for him being "weak".

AIBU to think he is scum and that the judge is a rape myth peddling idiot who should never be allowed to hold a gavel after insulting a victim?

OP posts:
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6
StaircaseAtTheUniversity · 15/01/2015 11:34

Thanks for pointing out you can see my name Zoe. I don't mind- I've blogged about it under my real name. Thanks though Smile

BarbarianMum · 15/01/2015 11:47

I am so sick of this shit. Angry

MrsHathaway · 15/01/2015 12:54

Teenagers lie and manipulate, and strive to adulthood beyond their maturity.

Teachers have a responsibility to manage any inappropriate overtures, with support from leadership, pastoral staff, etc.

I'm so glad MN as a hive mind rejects this sentencing and the judge's comments.

And, if you'll forgive me, I'm particularly heartened that male posters agree too. Flowers

LaLyra · 15/01/2015 13:21

The BBC have a latest/breaking news bar saying that the Attorney General have now confirmed that they DON'T have the powers to challenge the suspended sentence...

yellowdaisies · 15/01/2015 13:26

The trouble is that it's the judge's comments that are really out of order. The sentence does seem lenient - but it's true that you only know what is reported, and that the guidelines are quite wide, so it may be within the guidelines.

But the judge has used the opportunity to pass judgement herself on the victim in this case, and in doing so has had a potentially huge impact on others in a similar position. It's the comments I think really need to be retracted or the judge punished for, rather than necessarily giving the teacher a prison sentence (he's already lost his job, and won't ever work as a teacher again, and is on sex offenders' register for life - not that any of this is the judge's doing, they happen automatically)

I want to see the judget punished for the comments she made, rather than just having the sentence reviewed.

BarbarianMum · 15/01/2015 13:28

yellowdaisies I agree.

YonicSleighdriver · 15/01/2015 13:36

Yy yellow

PuffinsAreFictitious · 15/01/2015 13:50

The sentence is within the guidelines. I am reliably informed that The Court of Appeal has not given any general guidance as to when a sentence should be suspended (by a criminal barrister). Because the offence came under s16 of the Sexual Offences Act, the AG can't appeal the sentence, so I'm not clear what the AG will be able to do.

What the judge is reported to have said is disgusting. It propagates rape myths (even though this wasn't technically rape. I said technically) and moves the focus from what he did to her onto 'how she made him do it' as if at the age of 44, he hasn't quite got a handle on how his dick works yet. The focus should clearly be on the perpetrator and his crime.

motherinferior · 15/01/2015 13:52

The condom remark was both unspeakable and indicative. What the fuck?

I'm sure some of the girls at my daughters' school get crushes on teachers - one or two of the younger ones are gorgeous, both male and female. But they are also, I think and hope, decent human beings who (a) keep their pants on around the kids they teach (b) keep their pants on around kids in general.

Peedie · 15/01/2015 14:11

There was a good discussion about this on Radio 2 earlier - some bloke from somewhere I can't remember was talking about social media leading to blackmailing and manipulation of teachers by students and basically explaining how it was easy to get 'blurred lines' and the other person in the discussion was a fabulous woman HT (Dame someone?) and she just kept saying 'but they are the teacher, they are the adult, they know to say no'. She was like a broken record, relentless, it was brilliant.

And for me, that's the bottom line. A 44yr old man knows that you don't sleep with students. End of. And if you are struggling with the situation, you speak to someone about it.

This whole thing stinks.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 15/01/2015 14:17

You can't be blackmailed if, at the first sign of something like a crush brewing in a student, you inform the correct people of it. Better to over report such things than under, no?

Do teachers not have regular supervision meetings to discuss things like this as well as everything else? Genuine question.

HelenPat79 · 15/01/2015 14:29

As much as I think this particular teacher is a creep, I don't find it very helpful for people to just keep saying "but he was the teacher" like a broken record without engaging with any of the nuances. I'm sorry but it is NOT the same if you have a teacher pursuing a teenage student against the student's wishes, compared to if you have a teacher letting things get out of hand with a student who pursues them of their own accord. In the first case you have a sexual predator. In the second you have an idiot being irresponsible and breaking the rules of his or her profession. It would be ludicrous to treat them both the same. The judge is only explaining the circumstances of this particular case which are the reason for the length of the sentence she's giving.

Andrewofgg · 15/01/2015 14:32

It's not going to be referred to the CoA.

The more serious charge of sexual activity with an under-sixteen falls within the system for referring lenient sentences - the less serious charge of activity with a sixteen/seventeen when in a position of trust does not. He was acquitted of the first charge, and only convicted of the second.

The scope of the scheme is "under review" but you can be certain that (1) it won't happen before the election and (2) if it does it will not be retrospective.

This man must think Christmas has come very early this year. He must have expected to be leaving court in a prison van. His counsel earned his/her fees!

Andrewofgg · 15/01/2015 14:37

MrsHathaway Why wouldn't male posters agree? We have daughters, granddaughters, nieces, our friends have daughters who are in the right way our friends too. And the sort of man who would make excuses or blame the girl is not on MN in the first place. MN is a peculiar self-selected sub-set of the female and male population!

The trouble with talking of punishing the judge for her comments is that having an independent judiciary means sometimes accepting that they say undesirable things.

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 15/01/2015 14:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BarbarianMum · 15/01/2015 14:55

I disagree HelenPat - I think both examples you give are of sexual predators, even if of slightly different ilks. You don't have to treat them exactly the same to acknowledge both commited serious crimes and should be sentanced accordingly.

BarbarianMum · 15/01/2015 14:57

A judge making racist comments would hopefully be reprimanded (or whatever happens to judges) so why not for misogyny?

Andrewofgg · 15/01/2015 15:08

Reprimand, possible, by a more senior judge, but there have been posters saying she should be sacked, and that's not compatible with the independence of the judiciary.

IPityThePontipines · 15/01/2015 15:11

Teenage girls are generally prone to a)Obsessive behaviour b) trying to appear and act older then they actually are. Neither of these factors are any excuse or justification for a teacher to have sex with a student. A judge who is meant to have a decent level of insight into human behaviour should know this.

I just do not understand what on earth the judge was thinking.

MrsTerryPratchett · 15/01/2015 15:11

The thing is that almost every teacher, SW, Police Officer, Priest, Counselor, Homeless Worker and on and on has had someone, normally multiple people, 'in love' with them. It is a boringly predictable part of the job. I can remember at least two major ones off the top of my head in my career. If you think that a vulnerable person, sometimes a youth, having a crush on you is in any way 'tempting' you should not be doing your job.

Berts · 15/01/2015 16:31

HelenPat79 - having been on the receiving end of a teacher/pupil affair I do agree that being aggressively assaulted is probably worse than being taken advantage of by someone who should know better.

But there's a reason we say 'taking advantage'. When a child, to whom you are acting in loco parentis, is putting themselves in harm's way, heedless and ignorant of the consequences, do you as an adult (a) put out a hand to help them or (b), put out a hand to cop a feel and take full advantage.

He's a grown man, with responsibilities as a teacher and a husband, not an hormonal teenager - how hard is it to say no?

These emotionally immature people prey on vulnerable, easily manipulated kids who have no life experience to draw upon, they carelessly trash their lives and pressure them into situations they're not ready for and when they're caught, instead of taking any responsibility for their own actions, they try to put the blame on the child, or claim they couldn't control themselves.

A 44 year old man knows what he's doing and I don't see why it's so unreasonable to expect he should have taken charge of the situation and acted decently and responsibly. It's the least I would expect of anyone teaching my kids.

Berts · 15/01/2015 16:36

Also, it's a common MO of predatory types to work in professions where they will have a ready supply of young, impressionable people ready to be taken advantage of - they don't have to 'pursue' anyone overtly, just wait for some vulnerable kid to develop a crush (as at least one inevitably will), and just 'let things get out of hand'. Then if you get caught, your excuses are ready made for you...

Berts · 15/01/2015 16:37

Also, what MrsTerryPratchett said

BreakingDad77 · 15/01/2015 16:40

Cross posting but the Judge has form for absolving men having moments of madness.

forourdaughters.co.uk/index.php/tag/joanna-greenberg-qc/
"Joanna Greenberg QC, defended Arthur by claiming the murder took place when he had a momentary loss of control, what she called “a moment of madness.”. The jury did not agree. "

MrsHathaway · 15/01/2015 16:56

True, Andrew. MN women are an unusually feminist lot, let alone the men! Brew [Yorkie]

Sometimes it feels like we are the only people in the world who think like this. Heck, I have had to walk DH through some of it, and he is honestly one of the good guys.

Reading the comments under MN's link to this or the other thread on FB this afternoon made me despair. Barely stopping short of "she deserved it, the slut". So here, reading comment after comment of rational thought and understanding of the law and of actual human nature (teenagers take risks; men can refrain from having sex) was reassuring and heartening.

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