to suggest that if we start to hate eachother, the terrorists have won?

[perfectlybroken]

Having glanced at some of the threads on here since the Paris attack, I can't help feeling we are eating into their hands. Their actions, while tragic in their consequence only become far reaching if they increase suspicion and hatred between Muslims and non-Muslims. I'm amazed by the suggestion that many Muslims support these attacks. Dh and I are Muslim and we have never met a single person, here or abroad, who has agreed with the terrorist attacks of the last few years. If I did meet someone like this I would tell the police.
Could I ask everyone to remember that most humans want to live in peace and know that they and their children are safe and want the same for others too? Thank you.

Of course the terrorists were muslim, but not representative of the vast majority of muslims or for the Islamic faith.

Pacific I agree there's no point raking back over something like the crusades... but the conflict in Algeria was so very recent, just fifty years, so and is clearly having an ongoing impact within French society so I do think it's useful to factor it into the analysis.
Couldn't agree with you more about treating others as you yourself would like to be treated.

Fanjo, your posts have been really wonderful on those other quite nasty threads.
I'm afraid Caffe is starting to sound a bit like a one-trick pony.
YANBU OP.

Slaggy
but then I think of for instance the way crude anti-Semitic cartoons were one of the propoganda tools in Germany in the thirties. And then I feel a bit uncomfortable with a particular religious group being fair game for mockery.

The difference is that Islam is a religion whereas being Jewish in Nazi Germany was a matter not of your religious beliefs but of your ancestry. People with a Jewish parent who had been raised as Christians were still shipped off to the death camps.

Taking the piss out of people for things they CAN change is very different from mocking people for things they CAN'T change.

As for the comment below made further up thread:

I am trying to say most other European countries don't have the casual undercurrent of racism we have here.

I can only assume the person who made this comment is not particularly well travelled. There is shocking racism in many other european countries, of a nature we havent seen in the UK since the 70s. You might want to spend a few days in Paris for starters.

Caffe

Err.... no, not sorry.

Piss off

Just a heads up MN.

The terrorists do not have some grand plan to turn western people against Muslims and then Muslims will become dissatisfied with life in the west and then decide to join ISIS etc etc etc.

THEIR PLAN IS TO KILL YOU.
THEIR PLAN IS TO "DESTROY THE ENEMY".
SUBJUGATION AND DEATH.

Did you know Al-Quaida have a magazine? Within it are lists of possible targets (places, events etc - in the US and UK. France is mentioned as well) information how to build car bombs, tips on how Islam can "win" against "the enemy" ie America, UK, Europe. This magazine is freely available in the internet, you can find it in 2 minutes.

Sticking our goddamn heads in the sand and continuing to say "oh no, nothing to do with Islam" is a fucking insult. Yes, it is to do with Islam. Maybe not the same strand of Islam as most of the Muslims in society, but it is based on Islamic ideas. We HAVE to see it that way. We HAVE to challenge these ideas.

That doesn't mean "we should kick out all Muslims" or other garbage but it does mean taking a serious look at the influence of Islam and where people are getting these ideas.

but not representative of the vast majority of Muslims

You might be surprised to hear that I agree with that part.

I agree with the other thing you said too.

The terrorists are 'muslims' in the same way as termination clinic attackers are 'christians'.

Slaggy, yes, I agree, the analysis is fascinating.
I am simply aware that some of these issues or similar ones in other countries are being used by extremists to justify violence and terror.

Where did anyone say they are no longer allowed to be a Muslim?
Their actions are not supported by the Muslim community, their actions could only be "justified" (to them) by taking a very twisted reading of the Koran/Qu'ran that the majority of Muslims do not follow.

Therefore, their actions strike me (and blow me down for having an opinion!! ) as being pretty not Muslim.

I would love to heat your answer to my question though, in the spirit of healthy debate!

LeSaor, who is sticking their head in the sand?

Who said it's "nothing to do with Islam"?

I think noone. The clue is in the name "Islamist terrorists".

That's quite a strange thing to claim people are saying, sorry

*hear

I promise I will not set fire to your words

Well, if you agree with that part at least I will share my biscuits with you. They're luffly.

I agree with Twuntosaur.

I agree with notthekitchenagainplease re Fanjo's posts.

Fanjo

Do you actually just want one of my biscuits?

Eh? These idiots who carried out this despicable shooting were as Muslim/connected to an actual legitimate religious group as my socks

That's the bit.

But you were just the latest poster in the last couple of days to say something along the lines of "They are not Muslim"

All religions are interpreted. We can't say "oh I like that interpretation so the others are not Muslim" or "not Christian"

I bet the westboro baptists think that Catholics have twisted the meaning of Christianity.

So do protestants I think :)

I knew this thread would eventually attract certain posters. So predictable. The same arguments you've used on previous threads. Again and again. Caffe, simon - welcome. Are you following fanjo around?

Another poster not in the least apologetic for agreeing with the op.

Are these things indeed mentioned in the Koran?

"An elderly woman named Umm Qirfa once ran afoul of Muhammad merely by fighting back when her tribe was targeted by Muslim raiders. Muhammad's adopted son tied the woman's legs separately to two camels, then set the camels off in opposite directions, tearing the woman's body in two. He also killed her two sons and made her daughter into a sex slave"

"I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them..." (Bukhari 8:387)

“…two singing-girls Fartana and her friend who used to sing satirical songs about the apostle, so he ordered that they should be killed…” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 819)

Twuntosaur yes and I love your name

and how on earth can you compare people campaigning outside abortion clinics with these murderous evil thugs who call themselves Muslims?

Simon. I suppose that entirely depends on ones perspective.

I found some of those threads had a particularly rabid undercurrent and fanjo's posts pulled up the posters who were spouting the most offensive and ignorant crap.

fanjoforthemammaries did you really just say Who said it's "nothing to do with Islam?" I mean really you posted that?

If you look around the main 4-5 threads you will probably find dozens of examples if not 100s.

Oh and David Cameron and loads of Imams.