AIBU with this perspective on rape?

[TheOnlyWayThrough]

Rape is vile and awful and always the rapists fault in its entirety. Of course it is, you'd be mad to disagree.

The bit I don't really get is the argument that women shouldn't need to take any responsibly for keeping themselves safe. The idea that women (and sometimes men) wouldn't be vulnerable if rapists didn't rape.

Well of course that is true, but that would be in an ideal world. And this certainly isn't one, so the point is moot surely? That principle could be applied to all walks of life where some people do inexplicably nasty things to others... which is basically ALL THE TIME. Some things are obviously worse than others, and rape is up there with the most obscene. It's not the only awful thing though.

You don't hear people saying that elderly people shouldn't need to have chains on their door for their own protection. And if someone forced their way into the home of someone elderly without a chain, I wouldn't for a second blame them/say they were asking for it. It's just that that a chain might have kept them a bit safer; that's why we have them.

A friend of mine was mugged walking home from work one night recently (it was about midnight). She wasn't hurt, but was of course shaken up and felt horribly violated. She won't be walking home again like that as it clearly isn't as safe as she thought. And I think that's sensible. But I don't feel that makes me a 'mugging apologist'. My friend wasn't at fault for the scummy thing that happened to her, but she DID put herself in a situation which wasn't very safe... and she got stung.

When I was burgled whilst sleeping I wished I'd have put the burglar alarm on as it might have stopped it from happening. I put it on every night now, rather than saying "I shouldn't have to; it's the burglars that shouldn't burgle".

Why is saying that it's a good idea to keep ourselves safe somehow misconstrued as mitigating rape in a way that doesn't seem to with other crimes? It's not intended that way, and it's not judging or blaming anyone who has been raped. It doesn't matter if you were drunk, half-naked, whatever - the crime was the rape and the victim did nothing wrong.

So is it unreasonable to think that in some situations, some ladies have put themselves in situations which weren't at all sensible and made them prey to scummy behaviour? And to think that that isn't the same thing as saying they are to blame or deserving of rape in any way?

(Just to add, this isn't about the Ched Evans case any more than any other particular case. And to anyone who has been a rape victim, I hope nothing I've said offends you, it certainly wasn't meant to. And I hope those who hurt you receive justice)

squoosh

Maybe that is how you see responsibility, its not how I see it at all.
responsibility to minimise crime by taking precautions is imo an intelligent thing to do.
By not doing this and living life without precaution does not suggest that a victim was not being careful enough.

Hedgehog posted The problem though is that victims of other crimes have never been put on trial the way rape victims have been.

I agree this is the heart of the debate. I can't think of any other crime where the victim can be considered to be a contributor to the crime or at fault.
So any language that supports this notion is offensive.

But the reality is we generally live our lives in a way which does minimise forseeable risk, rape included. And women's freedom's are restricted as a result. Wish there was a better solution.

"I will be telling my dd to keep her knickers on until she has found the person she wishes to have sex with."

You think that otherwise she's likely to take her knickers off before she's found someone she wants to have sex with? Under what circumstances is that going to happen? What exactly is your daughter gaining from this sage advice?

I really hope nobody else who has been a victim of rape or sexual assault sees this fucking garbage thread

YABU
Ive been sexually assaulted it was on a residential street well lit at 6:15 pm in a Sunday night, I was at u I wearing jeans doc martins and a massive Parker. I was sober walking home from work. Quite frankly the bellend nutjob would of done it to me whatever I was wearing. Are people not allowed out after dark now?
I get the point maybe not have your phone out in a slightly rough area or try and lock your house to your best ability it reduces the risk! But since when has any of that shit stopped people doing bad things! If someone's going to rob your house they aren't gonna " go oo no the doors locked I shan't today".
This equates to rape and sexual assault it doesn't matter what the women whares or where she is the creepy fucking cunt rapist will still do what he intends...I'm proof of that!
And to who ever said about being drunk and keeping their knickers on should look in a mirror that's appalling!

We have a one way street near to us and lots of people from the main busy road turn into by error all the time. Some whizz up the street, so as a precaution and to keep my kids safe I taught them to look both ways, even though they shouldn't have to because cars should only be going the wrong way.
People have been knocked down and one person killed, it was a child.
I hoped mine always looked both ways before they crossed, I know our youngest dc does, all the time.

I was at Uni

I would never blame a woman for being raped. I have worked on a rape enquiry where the victim was a prostitute out working at the time, we got the rapist and his accompliace and they were jailed. On the other hand when my daughter goes out I tell her to get a taxi back if she is late, or pick her up myself, or tell her to make sure she stays with friends. I can see both sides of what you are saying but again I would never blame the victim.

I worry just as much about her brother, he is at more risk of a violent attack.

I'm so sorry that happened to you Chilly.

fromparistoberlin73

I think it very common for buys to face casual violence on a night out if they are by themselves. I know many parents of teenage kids who spend more time worrying about their sons on a night out than their daughters.

That's counter intuitive, but I think it is true.

the one way, not the wrong way.

Yes, I will be telling my dd to keep her knickers on until she has found the person she wishes to have sex with.

So if your daughter finds someone she wishes to have sex with, 'takes her knickers off' and then later down the line in their relationship he rapes her, what will you tell her then?

'For goodness sake dear, I said keep your knickers on'

FFS

boys not buys - sorry!

I understand . Whilst risk awareness is always necessary I think sungling out this issue (in isolation) is counter productive for the many reasons people state on the thread

It's just if I look at my brother and me , in the same context I came across risky issues more than him

But some very good and valid comments and its a very complex issue

I'll be telling my DDs to take their knickers off when they are giving birth, because I didn't with DD2 until I was already pushing and then it gets a bit tricky. They are the knicker-related values I wish to pass onto my daughters.

Oh, and for the record, statistically my above scenario is far more likely to happen to your daughter than the stranger jumping gout in dark alley scenario.

What is wrong with having values where you discourage your daughter from having one night stands and getting so drunk they don't know what they are doing.

I'm glad my parents were like this with me, clearly some people have no morals. I find it disgusting tbh.
Anything could happen, including accidents such as falling in the river, canal etc on your way home.
You could get mugged, raped, anything.

I have never said that this is the only way crime happens and that it couldn't happen under other circumstances, of course it could.

A man jumped out at me, many years ago. Thankfully, I fought him off and screamed and a man came to help. I was only badly shaken, but he dragged me in the bushes and tried his best.

I was raped.

I was sleeping in my own bed in student halls.

Three men broke in, beat me and gang raped me.

Now, 15 years later, I walk home alone at all hours, go where I please and enjoy my life.

If I can be raped in the so-called safety of my own (locked) room, there is very little point trying to avoid dark alley ways. I refuse to be scared to live my life.

"clearly some people have no morals. I find it disgusting tbh."

Could you expand a bit on this point?

Because to a casual observer it sounds as though, (on a thread about RAPE) you are singling out women who choose to have one-night-stands as the group you consider to have "no morals" and that you find "disgusting".

chrome.

I'm so glad you didn't let the actions of those rapists dictate the terms by which you live your life.

YABU

If an equal number of young men started being raped, something would finally be done about it.

And the victims wouldn't be blamed.

I do find one night stands disgusting tbh, yes.
As far as the rape goes, I think that refusing a one night stand may be a good precaution as is taking the pill if you don't want to become pregnant or looking both ways before crossing the road, putting your purse at the bottom of your bag rather than on view at the top.
All these things can minimise the risk, not stop them completely but not be there for the opportunist.

I don't find ONS disgusting, but I was always fearful of going back with a pscho madman so have never had a ONS.
Probably a bit too old now!

As far as the rape goes, I think that refusing a one night stand may be a good precaution

I do think you might need to look at your definition of rape, a one night stand is by it's very definition not rape.

Chrome