Opening a sandwich bar/Coffee bar

[OctoberMoon]

I'm aware this is not an AIBU, but i've posted on two other more relevant sections on the board and there's no traffic!

In the very, very early planning stage of hoping to eventually open a sandwich/coffee bar. After some information and advice if anyone here either runs one, works in one or knows a bit about it?

I have about 15k available to start me off (This is not a loan and won't need paying back to anyone) My idea is slightly different than a standard sandwich/coffee place but don't want to divulge too much info incase i'm outed.

In terms of staff, i'd be there running it as much as childcare would allow. I have 2 family members who are already in catering (and have the relevant food hygiene certificates required) who are hoping to get on board and work alongside me.

The questions I want to know the answers to will probably make me come across as extremely naive and lazy! I'm aware I could find the answers to these questions myself through market research etc, and I will, but i'm hoping those in the know may help me out a little? As I say, I am in the very early planning stages. The questions I want to know the answer to are -

Could my staff be self employed, responsible for their own tax and NI? Or do I need to be their employer?

I'm aware that location is the deciding factor as to whether this fails or succeeds. I'm thinking being close to other businesses/schools would be my best bet? Any tips of what I should look for in terms of location?

I want to start pricing equipment, is there a wholesale place that anyone could recommend? What's the best way to source produce in bulk?

Where can I find out more about what regulations I need to follow to open one? And more info on what qualifications or courses are needed in order to be able to safely work with food?

Any other info you can provide or any hints/tips would be greatly appreciated.

Oh and i'll have to try and make it AIBU, so am I being unreasonable and bloody stupid to think that this could work and make me a fairly decent living?

Things aren't always what they seem
You could be busy 24/7 ,but if the numbers don't stack up you'll be running at a loss.
In a nearby village there are no less than 5 cafe's.
One is doing well, owners have a catering background.
All the others have been short lived in their tenancy, perhaps they have been unlucky or just naïve in thinking a business can run itself. It doesn't, it requires on going research, promotion, observing new trends, knowing your Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats and constantly scrutinising your spread sheets.
That goes for any business.

Thought about a kickstarter? Some woman on Facebook was looking for start up funds for some cafe that sells organic baby food . If it's a unique and exciting idea then you might get some funding.

The people i know that are doing well with food have a very very small site and deliver to businesses, or again a small site and good parking so people 'pop by' to pick up their sandwiches. Another one has a cafe in a park and bloody hell do they clean up in the summer and hot chocolate just keeps it ticking over in the winter.
The one that does the best though has a trailer in a garden centre, they deliver to businesses and they also do catering bits. The trailer doesn't make the money its the delivery that does.

Delivering to businesses, I guess that's simply a case of finding local businesses with not much around them in terms of food/catering, giving them a ring and asking if I could send some information?

Octobermoon

I'm no expert in this field at all.

All I'd say is that I live in a very busy, affluent part of London.

So many cafes (and other independant shops) have shut down in our area despite wealth, footfall and a real community feeling.

One restaurant was full every single lunchtime and every single dinner time (it was a family run, 30 year old operation - well known and loved) - they have just sold half the property and gone smaller despite being packed all the time as they couldn't afford the rent and costs.

Local sandwich, cake and homemade salad deliveries to businesses would be great. Go door knocking on your local industrial estates to see if they'd like some.

I used to work next door to a garage in the middle of nowhere. Every day at 11-on an old ice cream van would turn up with sandwiches for the workers.

Hell, my DF used to have a sandwich round which made ok money. Getting up at 4am to make hundreds of butties, then all the driving, admin, cleaning, etc nearly broke him. It also doesn't really allow for any 'creativity'.

I think you can be incredibly creative with sandwiches.
Also those little add-ons, crisps, fruit, home made soup, confectionary.
You could also sell homemade pickles,and seasonal stuff too: trays of mince pies at Christmas, heart shaped cookies at Valentines, Easter buscuits.
A suitable van and small premises to prepare food would cost a lot less than a shop.
I remember many years ago a lady would visit our workshop with a basket laden with our orders plus other bits and bobs that we invariably bought.

Hmm, I think in a fixed location targeting a single employer like the factory, I wouldn't get too creative with sandwiches! Not sure what the m & s and Tesco best sellers are these days but they used to be prawn mayo, chicken salad, ham and cheese type things.

If you are targeting factory employees when they miss the canteen, remember that you will have to cover longer hours than the canteen.

I know of one cafe that is independent and doing very well, however you need to work all hours and only get extra staff for peak times. Location is vital too, the independent I know is opposite a busy station, so great for commuters, they open from 6am for coffee.

I fear it's hard to get a great location now though due to all the huge chains, my friend bought his forty years ago.

Good point Gobby! I used to think it was an ideal job but possibly not!

Btw I wouldn't assume that just because there isn't currently a trailer at the factory, one wouldn't be allowed. It's possible that the existing canteen have exclusivity though. Do you know if they are run by Sodexho or one of the other big providers?

If the site is so big that realistically half the employees can't make the canteen, you will have to be at the other end. It's possible you could enter into a joint arrangement with the canteen whereby you sell some of their product, you give them a cut.

The big issue with finding pitches and places to sell when you are mobile is that the good ones are normally gone.
And I say this running a successful mobile catering operation!

There is money to be made having said that, but its really really (times 100!) hard work. Far more than I anticipated when I first started.