To ask you all to sign petition regarding Oldham and Ched Evans

[floatyflo]

Actually I don't believe I am being unreasonable. But wanted to bring it to attention.

MN seems to be a quiet on this today but I think the fight should still go on. I can't link to it as I am so not tech savvy enough but it is on change.org. (Same person whk set up the Sheffield Weds one so of you sogned that one it is pretty easy to locate).Already has over 9000 signatures so please please please continue to sign and share!

Fair point Soup, but I think that given he was convicted on the strength of his own statement shows that this wasn't a miscarriage of justice. The fact that he maintains his innocence, to me, shows just how disgusting his attitude is.

Genuine miscarriages of justice? Ok, protest your innocence for as long as you like. But very few cases (especially rape cases) get a successful prosecution in this way.

Soupdragon, in fact victims of miscarriages of justice do have difficulty in getting parole when they don't accept their innocence. If Evans had been, say, a victim of mistaken identity, or if there had been any possibility that the victim was lying, of course he would be entitled to make that case. The problem here is that he was convicted purely on his own version of events, his victim having no memory of them, so there really is no room for doubt.

Is this going to happen every time he tries to get a job?

I just wish I could stop seeing his mug on TV every 5 minute. It must drag all kinds of memories up for his victim

Mike Tyson served time for rape yet nobody bats an eyelid at that freak.

Is this going to happen every time he tries to get a job?

Hopefully and in my case definitely.

Re Tyson - I can't remember much about his case at all (blissfully sheltered childhood) but perhaps attitudes to rape have changed?

No, it isn't - only when he tries to get a job in a position which puts him in the public eye and the position of being a role model. He has, after all, got a job offer already via his girlfriend's father, and no-one is making a fuss about that.

Thank you OP for bringing to my attention. Signed. The wording of the petition sums it up for me. It's NOT about him getting a job. It's about the failure to acknowledge the crime, to put a stop to the hounding of his victim and being given an opportunity to be a role model.

Patrick, IIRC, there was a petition to stop Tyson coming to the UK. And Julien Blanc, who advocates sexual assault, was denied a visa.

Petition against speaking event for Tyson

m.facebook.com/notes/changeorg/changeorguk-portsmouth-campaigners-get-event-with-convicted-rapist-mike-tyson-ca/10151027906309003

Glad that so many have signed. Sad to see people still defending him without having bothered to even glance at any of the links provided by pp above.

inthedark, it's been explained up thread why both men weren't convicted

I am aware if the reasons without reading this thread in its entirety because I have read up previous things on the case but I don't agree that the jury necessarily got it right. I believe that both men should have been found guilty or both not guilty because the victim was drunk beyond ability to consent level when she entered the hotel. The video footage shows her staggering around and dropping her bag prior to being in the hotel.

I wonder whether those supporting his return would like it if, say, he got a sports teaching job in their daughter's

The disclosure and barring service wouldn't allow him to get a job in a school and rightly so. There is no similar barring to prevent him playing football alongside other adult males. If we want him to be barred from playing football with other adult men then we need a change in the law to make it the same in all cases of this nature rather than singing petitions against one person. I would be more inclined to support a request to change the law than I am to sign this specific petition. I think that law should be extended to any professional sportsperson who commits an indictable only offence.

You may well be right, Inthedark, but the issue is not just whether the jury thought the victim was too drunk to consent but whether it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that each man had no reason to believe that she had capacity to consent. Whether the acquittal of the other man was correct or not, I can't see anything wrong with Evans' conviction, and this certainly isn't a case where you can say if one man was innocent then both men had to be.

I think that this situation has actually been made worse by his arrogance. It's only, what, 3 months since he was released and he's on licence? So in that time, there have been 3 attempts to get back into football. Not entirely necessary as he has been offered alternative employment.

He hasn't had the foresight/forethought to even wait a while before launching his comeback attempts. It looks like he is so convinced that what he did was acceptable that he refuses to keep his head down and give people a chance to forget - it is almost as if he expects to be welcomed back with open arms.

But there are other jobs where DBS checks aren't necessary where people wouldn't be allowed to come back after a conviction of this type - the law, for instance. It's generally been recognised that it's inappropriate where the convicted person would bring the profession into disrepute. It would be daft to try to put together some sort of definitive list because so much would depend on the circumstances. It really is, or ought to be, a matter of common sense.

inthedark do you think that 'a minute or two' (evans's own evidence) is enough to time to find out if a very drunk woman, who you have never met before, is in a fit state to consent to sex with you?

It's also a matter of commercial sense. Sheffield and their sponsors recognised that they would start losing money hand over fist if they took Evans back. They would probably have lost other good players too - who wants to play in a team constantly being barracked as supporters of rape?

Yes icimoi there are many professions where the law says the person cannot return to work after a criminal conviction (even when DBS checks are not a requirement). But the law still says those people cannot work in that profession. I would support a change in the law to say that professional sportspeople can no longer be in professional sports after committing an indictable only offence. I don't think it is right that we have other sportspeople who have committed terrible crimes and are happily continuing in their chosen sports whilst we have campaigns against another individual to stop him returning to work. Why not campaign to change the law for all professional sportspeople?
There is a footballer who killed a family due to his wreckless driving and he continues to play football.

Inthedark, I would tend to agree that CM had sex without meaningful consent. However, the judge made it clear in summing up that the jury could reach different conclusions on both. We do not know why as jury room discussions are privileged so we are speculating that the jury decided there might be room for reasonable doubt as to CM's belief he had consent.

No I don't willferrell, which is why I said I was interested in the outcome of his current request for an appeal to have his conviction I returned. I personally believe that both men were guilty, but I was not a member of the jury so my opinion doesn't count. I was also not the judge who passed sentencing so I don't think it is my place to decide in what further punishment is appropriate based on Cheds continued innocence protests and arrogance.

The judge cannot change the sentence now.

"If we want him to be barred from playing football with other adult men then we need a change in the law to make it the same in all cases of this nature"

No, no change in the la? is required. It is already totally legal to decide not to employ someone in the basis of their criminal record.

"You are within your rights to not let your children support a team he plays for or display his posters."

I take it you don't have preteen or teenage DC of your own? Yes, I could limit which posters are displayed and make it hard to attend matches. But that doesn't stop them being supporters.

Yes, I have a pre teenager and a teenager of my own. They wouldn't support Evans or somebody like him because they have the intelligence to discuss with me why I would be against them supporting him and they would realise that my arguments are valid and sensible. Children are capable of realising when somebody is not the sort of person to support if parents take the time to give them reasons and have a rational discussion about it.

A change in the law would help prevent all persons convicted of a criminal offence from being employed in certain professions. Do you have any idea how any professional sportspeople have committed serious criminal offences and continue to compete in their sport? Do you not think it would be more useful to change the law to prevent all of them from being in high profile sports roles than to sign a petition against just one of them when the petition has no legal weight and could be ignored if a club really wants to sign him?

No, no change in the la? is required. It is already totally legal to decide not to employ someone in the basis of their criminal record.

Yes exactly. And it happens all the time that people are not allowed to return to work or are not employed by a company because they have a criminal record.

Hell, people get sacked for saying something inappropriate on twitter, or dont get an interview because the employer looked them up on Facebook and didn't like what they saw. No one has a problem with this.

But a convicted rapist footballer not being able to saunter back into his career? Huge social injustice! Give the boy a chance!