to wonder about Mary and Joseph? [Thread title edited by MNHQ]

[Charingcrossbun]

If Mary and Joseph are married then isn't it odd that she is a virgin?
Am I being ignorant? Was it a shotgun post preggo wedding? Or are they not married and she is a single mum?
Not questioning the religious side (or trying to be offensive) just wondering about their relationship?

I have reported this thread as i am sure others have, I am interested to see if MNHQ let it stand

I hope they do. The thread title may be poorly phrased but it has raised some interesting points about early Christianity.

lemiscared, Joseph is portrayed in sacred art as an old man, to indicate his implied incapacity in the sexual department, and is the patron saint of cuckolds.

Not sure why you would want to report the OP as offensive. Would you care to say in what way? Like on the thread?

I didn't know the tradition of Mary having other children - can someone tell me where it's from? I know St Anne is supposed to have conceived Mary without sex but then also had other children, but thought Mary didn't?

I think the offensive part is by wondering if he had erectile dysfunction rather than wondering why he wasn't the natural father.
Erectile function is often used as the butt of jokes and to randomly ask if that was the case for one of the main "characters" in Christianity is designed to be offensive.
It can be equated to asking if mohammed was a lecherous old man as his wives were so much younger than him.
I'm not saying ED should be the subject of ridicule but by the tone of the OP that's exactly how she meant it.

I think the thread title is poor, but some good points have been made on the thread.

Maybe MN could just change the thread title?

They didn't get married (or have sex) until after Jesus was born. Depending on viewpoint she NEVER had sex and was ALWAYS a virgin. I don't believe that at all -bet there were more children.

Morning all,

Right, we've had a number of reports about this thread.

We really don't think the OP intended to offend anyone, but we agree that the thread title is insensitive.

There have been some interesting points raised on the thread, though, so we're going to let it run and change the title.

Merry Christmas

Just read the OP to my local Catholic priest....he laughed like a drain. Said "that's one to ponder on" and went off chuckling.
No offence here OP.

Many biblical scholars argue about the translation of the gospels and plenty say the term "Virgin birth" is in fact a mistranslation. Me, I don't pretend to even begin to understand.

Re siblings:
Matthew 13:55English Standard Version (ESV)
55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
And..Mark 6:3
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

...that was for Jeanne

Iggy, those who believe in perpetual virginity argue that it is not 'brothers' but 'kin', and view James etc as cousins.

I was quite offended by the title and am glad it was changed. of course this issue has been discussed many times. Some don't believe in the virgin birth at all, others believe in it but believe Mary went on to have other chidlren. Catholics are taught Mary remained ever virgin and the brothers were cousins or other relatives. Not sure what I believe really. But take away the virgin birth and the whole concept of Christianity and Christ being the son of God would collapse. But we are all children of God. I think Dougal had the right idea.

BobbyBingoooo My gran believed that in Jesus's lost years he travelled as far as Britain.

And I thought Mary and Joseph went on to have more children, but I have also read that Joseph was a widower and Jesus's "brothers and sisters" were from his first wife.

I've never seen a theological need for perpetual virginity, though can't confess to have spent much time on it!

Exfil believe that Jesus visited Cornwall as part of his ministry.

The holy grail turns up in the southwest of engkand as part of Arthurian legend, doesn't it? Tho I think that was supposedly Joseph of Arithmea after Jesus death.

Nope, he came on a camel across the then sandy stretch between France and England.

The Holy Grail turns up EVERYWHERE,
including Rosslyn Chapel, according to Dan Brown in his execrable book (and lots of folk making money out of the Chapel, left, right and centre, sadly).

About 20 years ago the Holy Grail was found in the local branch of the Midland Bank (as it was called then). It made front page of the local paper, and everything.

Well, Angie Richard III really WAS found under a municipal car park space marked 'R' on the 'hunch' of an amateur enthusiast, so you never know....

I am not far from Rosslyn, and they WILL NOT use sonar etc to look under the floor of the Chapel, they like to keep the stories going I think - good for business.
Certainly it has changed greatly since the Dan Brown nonsense (think big visitor centre, expensive entry etc...).

The Midland Bank needs to up it's game...

Well it says it in 'Jerusalem', doesn't it, that most great and historI call you accurate of hymns. 'And did those feet in ancient times. ..' so it must be true.

Lol at Cornwall. My dad would say Newcastle.